This weekend's Fireside chat News and Views from the Nefarium (Take two!) is finally ready!

News and Views from the Nefarium Mar 4, 2011 (Take Two)

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Joseph P. Farrell

Joseph P. Farrell has a doctorate in patristics from the University of Oxford, and pursues research in physics, alternative history and science, and "strange stuff". His book The Giza DeathStar, for which the Giza Community is named, was published in the spring of 2002, and was his first venture into "alternative history and science".


  1. Thomask on March 7, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    I think of the “cold war” where both sides were controlled from a hidden middle, and neither side was/is good in any real sense. the hidden middle is where the evil resides, feeding off of conflict, death, and violence. the ‘war’ is the easiest way to continue control, and remain hidden. this could have easily been the case in the ancient world as well. An Hegelian dialectic to further programmed ends, or a hypnotic serpent winding from one side to the other.

  2. Vinnie on March 6, 2011 at 6:47 pm

    Would anyone like to consider that there may be no “good” guys in any of this play, and that all we have are elite and ancient bloodlines that have been battling one another for control of the planet and the resources from the dimmest millienum past? Maybe we should start to question all the things we’ve been taught and all the institutions we’ve grown up believing in to see whose interests are being served. Could it be that we’ve come to align ourselves into warring sides to defend the most ancient bloodlines that view us as expendible bits to serve their needs and interests? What makes anyone think that just because there are bad guys, that those who oppose them are necessarily good guy? I could be the case that whichever of these sides wins, mankind looses. What if it turns out that the best thing would be for each of these elite factions to be exposed and eliminated? Might that not be the best of all worlds?

  3. Thomask on March 6, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    Your request for input I read as open-ended, so I am going to question something you said in your latest social engineering talk on the Byteshow, and support a point you ended with in LBJ book (sorry if this is off topic from the above).
    On the Byte show you again reiterated the two competing elite theory, one being “good” and the other “bad” (of course this you state is only an hypothesis). I can accept this only if it is clear that we are not referring to the “anglo-american/masonic” as the “good” party: please refer to Anthony Sutton’s works (among others) as to how Lenin, Hitler, and Mao were all selected and supported by this elite at key early points in their careers. Also see:
    for an interesting connection with this point and another point touched on in this same interview, that of child abduction.
    Perhaps we can discern the “good” in two ways: their fruits proven through time, and via your ‘soul’ and ‘person’ remark on the final page of the LBJ book. Any group that would ‘engineer’ humanity as a “herd” to be manipulated displays an approach lacking in authentically human soul. A group which respects free will, perhaps eliciting a free response as opposed to a programmed reaction, would be one which has not repeated the western heresy of confusing substance/species/soul and person.
    That there has been a good elite is evidenced in traditions such as the “3 Magi”, and in lives of numerous saints up to the present day. I would say that the universe bends towards justice. Evil displays a parasitical need to feed off of the innocent, especially the most innocent – hence the abuse and even sacrifice of children. Good is fed from the fount directly. Perhaps the good “elite” remains hidden to profane eyes: it certainly doesn’t “engineer” results in any generic and technological way, but moves within the hidden realms of the human heart.
    In any case thank you for your work, keep it up!

    • Joseph P. Farrell on March 6, 2011 at 5:12 pm

      As I point out in my books, the terms “good” and “bad” are only of convenience and it becomes difficult to disentangle the two… but my focus in this context is on more ancient themes… it will, I hope, be a little clearer once Genes, Giants, Monsters and Men is out.

      • photios on March 7, 2011 at 2:15 pm

        yes I agree. I think it’s helpful to recall the “good” guys and “bad” guys in the Enki and Enlil Summerian drama version of the Ancient Elite. Judging based on the point-of-view of Aristotle’s ethics, what you have is the bad guys (Enki/Ea) and the really nasty guys (Enlil). Enki, who does many good things for man, also creates him in a peculliar fashion, creates him to be a slave, and is also tribal in his selection of a certain group of people.

        What I think you might really have is truly good people interspersed in possibly both of these groups.

  4. Christine on March 5, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    come to think of it, you’re right about the urgency thing. Might partly
    be, get the money from the suckers while you still can, might be feeding
    off each other and Alex whatsisname, but yeah, there is a kind of

  5. Kent on March 5, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Hi, Mike M. I assume you were talking to me when you asked the question, “Could you please elaborate?” I had used the single word ‘urgency’ as my
    explanation of how alternative information and alternative information outlets
    or sources are presenting that information as time passes. Am I right?

    Perhaps I should not have entered the discussion in the first place and I’ll
    explain that in a moment. But as a paid-in-full member of the Dr. Joseph P.
    Farrell Members Only Club, I jumped in anyway, knowing full well I’d be in over my head.

    I have been interested in the strange, the weird, the way far out there stuff, or
    all things Fortean for a very long time. I should qualify this by saying MOST things Fortean. Some junk I’ll not touch with that proverbial pole.

    For a very long time means I can remember the two flying saucer events of
    1947. I was just a kid but I do remember my excitement when the grown-ups
    read about the saucers in the paper.

    Now flash forward to about 1971. I had been reading library books on weird stuff all along, but in 1971. I bought The Book. It was von Daniken’s “Chariots
    of the Gods.” Boy, hidy! as we Texans say, was that something. Fantastic.

    Great as it was, there was no urgency. Then later in the seventies Leonard Nimoy hosted the TV series, “In Search Of.” Interesting but nothing urgent about it. And of course we had the best ever science fiction movie, “Star Wars.”

    Fun stuff along with the occasional TV Loch Ness or Big Foot story. And of course, still no internet nor urgency.

    I must include a book – a force – parrelling von Daniken and his book, there was in 1969, Hal Lindsay and his seminal work “Late Great Planet Earth.” Both authors continue cranking out books now forty years later yet each man’s originals are still selling and enchanting newer generations of readers. If one
    reads a book for the first time it is a new book.

    Now Hal’s book might have sparked a beginning sense of urgency among Christian readers, but those readers knew the book didn’t end for another forty
    or fifty years. Nonetheless, we’re talking about a whole other genre of information. (or are we?)

    As for myself, spanning the last three decades, I took a back seat and came online only about three months ago. My interest in the hidden or alternative,
    non-mainstream subject matter had been on the back burner, so to speak.

    I had been watching History Channel’s shows about UFOs, Ancient Aliens, but about three months ago I started listening to Coast to Coast, reading Joseph’s books and then turned off the TV and began spending hours at my computer.

    At first I’d just Google up certain words. That lead me to sites such as Project Camelot and others where I viewed You Tube interviews with so called “Whistle-Blowers.” You mentioned John Lear so I know you’ve seen the stuff
    I’m talking about.

    Stories got wilder and wilder. I began receiving daily emails from a number of sources. Now I know some of the stuff on You Tube can be several years
    old. But, Mike, the under lying theme, regardless the specific topic, is one of
    what I have called urgency. There is a sense of expectancy. Now I don’t know
    if things were so urgent ten or fifteen years ago. As I said I was on the back burner. I was running a business.

    I think the whole 2012 thing and with the clock ticking has caused a collective
    sense of urgency. Or of course that sense of urgency may be only a projection of myself. Mike, did this sixty + years trip with me make any sense? Answer your question?

    I said I’d explain why I shouldn’t have jumped into this discussion. It’s in the above but to to say it straight out, I have been involved in the alternative
    field only about three months and so I may not have a good handle on things.

    Old Cap’n Kent

    • Mike M on March 6, 2011 at 9:24 pm

      It’s a great point, and could be plumed a bit deeper. Thank you for indulging me and others. I’m still learning, just as all of us are, so welcome aboard:)

  6. Kent on March 5, 2011 at 8:50 am

    Opps, I left out a question mark (?) above. I should have written, did I get that right?

  7. Kent on March 5, 2011 at 8:47 am

    Well, I read what everyone has written so far on this topic. I think we’re all
    trying to say something about alternative subject matter, and the various
    alternative information outlets; and how all this has seemingly changed, or is currently going through a period of change. Did I get that right”

    And we’re doing this at Joseph’s request, even though he couldn’t quite put his finger on exactly what is churning around in his head, or is it in his gut. That
    is as a gut feeling. I didn’t have to write this much because I can sum up my opinion of the change or under current in one word:


    • Mike M on March 5, 2011 at 11:16 am

      Could you please elaborate?

  8. Mike M on March 5, 2011 at 2:20 am


    Perception is a crazy thing and, in general, I think this is the fundamental nature of your question. My opinion is this, we are not dealing with an isolated phenomena with in alternative media, but a broad sweeping condition that lays at the heart of the human experience.  When looking at the media, which ever outlet you partake in, you have to look at its function.  What does it do, why does it work, how is it so effective, and how does it infringe upon perspective?

    At its basic level, any media is a view of an experience, from a predefined perspective.  It is a medium that tries to relay the occurrence of interactions between bodies of interest. Within that medium it tries to relate the who, what, when, where, why, and how. When it relates all of those points, an inherent and inescapable flaw arises, the exclusion or inclusion of all perceivable information. So one, regardless of their ability, has to rely on their bias, credibility, or emotional  response to relay a story.  When doing so, not all the facts are ever truly displayed, therefor it leaves the viewer with a story established from a predefined perspective.  

    The reason this all works so marvelously is, events can never truly be encapsulated, in there entirety, within the confines of any man made medium to which it is placed.  The sheer number of varying viewpoints from every perceptible source, as of present, is impossible to relay. So, needless to say, revisions to events must be made in order to convey any set of information in an intelligible manor. But with that you loose vital context for the content you are perceiving. Leaving one to consider the audience of interest, who will be viewing this, what is their relative maturity, and what conditioning have they been subjected to. At its root, media has to be empathic, not impartial,  to its audience.

    No matter who the individual is, when given information an emotional response occurs.  The responses could be of love, hate, lust, envy, concern, or indifference, yet every event holds an impact upon its recipient. In order for media outlets to grasp an audience, they need to indulge in the emotive reflex of an individual. How they go about stimulation is quite obvious, colors, noises, symbols, you could increase the list ad infinitum.  In order for the distributers of media to know what content to disperse, they need to be empathetic to the audience they wish to capture. Always to be careful not to insult or offend what delicate, or obtuse, threshold an audience might have.

    That being said, what effects does the medium of media have upon use. It limits the ability of a society to have an intelligent debate about critical issues. It stifles the ability to address grievances, or the process to resolve them.  It erodes the very fabric of the human experience, the one that endeavors to reach for greatness. In the end it breaks down the relationships within our lives and the one with ourselves.
    Know for the juicy part. So what is the base issue and/or problem? I believe the saying is ” water seeks its own level “.  We as a people have been talked down to, lied to, left out of the conversation for so long that it seems we have left ourselves blind.  Those who wish to raise their level will seek higher ground. Those who do not will stay in turbulent and muddied waters. Yet there is opposition, and it does not come from the media, the books, the songs, the films, and the talking heads.  It steams from within each and every person who wishes to be comfortable with complacency. The frustration comes from the realization that it’s all a mystery, and that we must find truth within ourselves.  Our intuition must be our guide, we must listen to the voice of reason that lives within us all. We should seek our own authority and have thanks for those who show us the way.
    So in summation, the problem as a general principle is the loss of cohesion within the constitution of ones own judgement.
    ” if you can not trust yourself, how can you trust if you have mistrust within yourself? “

    • Mike M on March 5, 2011 at 2:28 am

      Sorry for the length of the comment, trust me I could have rambled on and on for much long, and at greater detail.

    • Christine on March 5, 2011 at 6:40 am

      trust yourself too much, have too much confidence in yourself, and you
      easily fall prey to those scams that rely on exploiting such ego. And
      you will also fail to change when you need to do so.

      • Mike M on March 5, 2011 at 11:13 am

        True Christine no one is infallible, yet all to often, people believe that they are. Most of the time it’s just to preserve their ego. Although, I am not trying to imply that everyone is without humility, but it is so rare a trait that gets displayed.  Just the other day, on Facebook, Joseph admitted to being incorrect about a key point of discussion, which is admirable.  Within this field, not all allow themselves the option of fallibility . Which I believe is a source of frustration for a portion of the community involved. The inability to be human and make mistakes is staggering. I am not trying to enlist others to be gullible, or to preserve a specific view point. I’ll use myself as an example.  I have been interested in conspiracies for a good portion of my life, most likely starting in my early teens.  It wasn’t until my mid twenties that the alternative media captured me. 
        My first exposure was with Project Camelot, and the interviews they posted on YouTube.  When I first started to watch their videos, I believed almost every stitch of what was presented.  One in particular was John Lear.  Now if you assume that I respect the work of Dr. Farrell, which I do, do you think I still believe anything that John Lear was saying is true?  My answer is no, in my opinion John Lear is a shill.  It took not only evaluation of his ideas and beliefs, but those of mine as well. I had help evaluating my opinions, from the people I talk with, or the sites I read from. 
        We all start out ignorant and come to a higher order of less ignorance. That is only gained through observation, reasoning and substantive dialog. At it’s base, I think the ability to think and trust one thoughts, or intuition, has not been cultivated adequately. And our media sources have a high degree of conditioning instilled within them, which helps to negate those vital functions of assessment, evaluation, and critical thinking.  If you make something convincing enough, does it become true? No, but it can appear that way, and the only method I can use to discern which is which is my intuition and past experiences.
        The dialectic within alternative media is most aptly, in my opinion, encapsulated by the ATS banner that states ” Deny Ignorance “. What does the statement ” deny ignorance” really mean or imply. Well the way I perceive the statement it is instructing us to, declare that ignorance is not true, or to disown ignorance, or to refuse to agree to or give into ignorance. Now coming from a media outlet, who’s main function is to illuminate the unknown, and root out ignorance, they have a piss poor motto. More could be said about this, that I am sure of:-)

  9. Greg Parent on March 4, 2011 at 11:41 pm

    The alternative community is flooded with alt-babble, which has the effect of devaluing all alternative research, even that which is legitimate. Frankly, I have stopped listening to the alternative radio programs because they will put anybody on with the most outrageous, unsubstantiated claims and not pose any hard questions. Any legitimate research, even alternative research requires some standards but “alternative” has come to mean anything goes. In short, It has imploded into the post modern abyss of relativism . This applies to books as well, 98% of which amount to total drivel. But such is the goal of the counter-initiation to create cognitive dissonance and break down any objective sense of reality, so that it can be reconstructed for malevolent use. That is to say, it’s quite possible that the alternative community itself has become an instrument (if it wasn’t always) of social engineering.

  10. Jon on March 4, 2011 at 11:28 pm

    I’ve been around long enough (longer than Joseph), and I’ve watched all kinds of popular movements become invaded and co-opted by corporate and “other” interests time and time again. It is the most effective method of maintaining control over a population – people willingly become their own jailers.

    I watched the environmental movement, the peace movement, the free energy movement, health food, alternative medicine, etc., all slowly get pulled into the mainstream as the powers that be got enough of their “control points” installed and began to spin the message to suit their ends. This has been extremely visible and painfully obvious with global smarming, I mean warming.

    For reasons I can’t go into publicly, when I first read Reich of the Black Sun, there was so much which I had good reason to already suspect to be true that I began to consider Joseph’s work to be the “gold standard” for any kind of research, alternative or not.

    Also, an incredible number of points Joseph makes are things I had also concluded coming from other directions, and that made me sit up and take notice, not to mention appreciate all the solid evidence he brings to the table.

    Of course, since he agrees with me, he must be right…….. : )

    I have noticed the “energy” changing around many aspects of alternative culture (to use the word loosely), and some of it is decidedly manipulation. Some of it is generated by the confusion caused by deliberate misdirection, and some is simply misreading the energy. I used to be able to see and predict the course of things with far greater certainty than I can today.

    There could be many reasons for this, including events beginning to reach a state of turbulence as we reach some kind of boundary condition in energy states and evolution in our chaotic system.

    The problem is we are working with with fragments of a gigantic puzzle, obscured on purpose, with tired eyes. I refer to Western Society as a “castrated cargo cult,” because we are trying to understand the past and the present with a deeply limited and essentially superstitious mindset. We actually know so little.

    This could be a very long discussion…..

  11. MattB on March 4, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    I think Hegel has had his way in global society. The dialectic model appears everywhere and alternate research has become a victim as well.

    Alternate research has become like the Roswell story-a couple of poorly verified options mangled with useless extras that squeeze a much more logical ‘third position’ out of view.

    If anything the great number of books and articles coming from th altrnate community has created an information ‘glut’ that has stalled real research. Everything appears to be spin-offs of something else.

    It is like the music industry where the real innovative musos are left in the clubs and the big enterprise rehash artists and labels control what perception people should have of music and what they should (or should not) purchase.

  12. Bruce on March 4, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    And of course, in this day and age it must be assumed that disinfo from all sides permeates the alternative community. Don’t think for a minute that intelligence agencies (and other suspects) would leave that community untouched.

  13. Bruce on March 4, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    Just in case you have not been told, one of the primary reasons that I (and I assume others) like your books is because you actually back up what you say with something, whether that be footnotes or logical argument. You may not prove your case, but you make it clear that you know that you haven’t proven your case in a technical sense. But just the way you lay everything out is usually amazing all by itself. Even if you were to connect the dots incorrectly (not saying I know you have), just seeing how you line up those dots is valuable in and of itself.

    I have been delving into the “alternative community” for decades, and most books just do not make a very good case for whatever the thesis might be. Too much bald assertion. Too many quotes that always go back to some unreliable source (just another bald assertion).

    I consider you to be one of two really good “alternative” sources that I know of today (the other being Dave McGowan) whose opinion I am interested in.

    Even the highly respected author Jim Marrs, in his book THE RISE OF THE FOURTH REICH, did not justify even one statment that he made (that I can remember). I’m not saying I “know” he is wrong, just that he had no arguments to back up anything he said, it was pure assertion (in my opinion, of course). I was very disappointed. (Feel free to delete the author and book names).

    I did not really start taking the Nazi angle seriously until you started LAYING OUT THE DATA, pure and simple. I still have no idea what it means, but it PROBABLY means something . . . .

  14. Christopher on March 4, 2011 at 7:20 pm

    I agree that something is definitely going on in the alternative community. Mainly what I feel is a sort of corporate takeover of research topics simply so the parameters of certain topics are controlled. Now what we have is “Alternative Mainstream” and anything outside of those parameters is considered “kooky.” Vetted “experts” and “authorities” have been put into place.

    I also see certain things being mentioned in the mainstream media, and (by design)automatically laughed at. Just witness the recent Charlie Sheen fiasco and listen to some of the things he’s said. Goofy statements regarding The Vatican, DNA, Mars, Mercury, and even an alchemical reference “I took their tin cans and turned them into pure gold.” Now look at the shows he made those statements on. He’s now laughed at as a drug addled fool, and from now on anyone who talks about those topics is meant to be treated the same way.

    Just my $.02

  15. chris on March 4, 2011 at 9:20 am

    for what its worth I have felt this for a few years. That although I am entertained by some of these books be they on UFOs, alternative technology, and even spirituality, they also have frustrated me and lately I also get the same frustrated and slightly weary feeling as well.
    They are probably slightly related and probably also not.
    That is to say: There seems to be a cyclical reproduction of information in this field that lasts say 10 years and then repeats itself. The data never seems to get any different, and there never really seems to be any progress. It is just repeats the same basic information regardless of the topic, and the only thing to maybe change is the surface presentation geared to a new generation. So it is as if the whole alternative media thing is being controlled or designed as an outlet for the slightly more intelligent sheep to keep them busy.
    Second thing, the feeling of askewness. Nice word 🙂 It seems related to an imminent intutive feeling and even a general malaise in the non sensitive that some big event is nigh that most likely involves a fake ET event in other words a false flag. This seems to be thus just due to the pushing of the ET hypothesis so hard lately and also all the shows on mass media about ancient aliens and alien hunters etc. This is another circle or smokescreen to hide the truth which is most likely human based power grabbing and consolidation of societal barriers.
    So the two topics seem to be working in tandem to keep the slightly smarter sheep (us) on a slightly longer, yet still a ‘leash’.
    Average person control grid: mass television, gadgetry and pop music.
    Slightly smarter person control grid: new age , alternative media, said books, and yoga/spirituality designed to get nowhere.
    What do you all think?

  16. steven on March 4, 2011 at 8:16 am

    Frustration with Alternate Media:

    There appears to be little or no cohesiveness and agreement on the truth. Perhaps, as in quantum mechanics, truth too is relative and dependant upon the viewer/experiencer.

    Real nature of things ? Boggles the mind … tell me it ain’t so!

    • Christine on March 4, 2011 at 8:36 pm

      reality is one thing. What people think it is is another. Ever hear the story
      of the blind men trying to figure out an elephant? one says it is a fan. One
      a rope. (the tail) another said it was a wall (the flank) another said it is a
      pillar (the leg) another that it was like a huge snake (the trunk).

      Put the whole picture together and you might get something like an
      elephant, but unless you got details on how far forward into the cave
      the elephant is in any given report came from, you might put the fan
      on top of the wall on the pillars, the tail on the face and the trunk on
      the butt.

      Add to that people deliberatetly misdirecting the blind men……

      Regarding the idea that the alternative media is the truth, remember
      that it is just the product of some people with their own biasses and
      agendas in addition to their limits, and probably in some cases,
      by blindly accepting the idea, that anything that makes the govt. look
      bad is true, repeating disinformation.

      Some individual writers or performers so to speak may be disinfo
      agents themselves, or pompous types who want a lot of glory, so
      they have had some real minor experience, but they blow it up
      and fill the picture out a lot more. I think Phil Schneider is a case
      in point.

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