BEHIND THE SCRIM OF THE APOCALYPSE THEATER GENETICS MARCHES ON
Well, behind the scrim of the apocalypse theater, as the world's financial markets crumble and there is sword-rattling from Tulsa to Tel Aviv to Tehran, you may have missed this significant "little" development being reported over at phys.org:
World's first chimeric monkeys are born
Please note what has prevented the genetic engineering of such chimerical primates previously:
"Mitalipov says it appears that primate embryos prevent cultured embryonic stem cells from becoming integrated as they do in mice. Their study also suggests that cultured primate and human embryonic stem cells, some of which have been maintained in lab dishes for as long as two decades, may not be as potent as those found inside a living embryo."
In other words, a means has been found that had hitherto prevented the engineering of such chimeras within primates. The clue to the new technique is outlined in the article itself:
"The chimeric monkeys were born after the researchers essentially glued cells from separate rhesus monkey embryos together and successfully implanted these mixed embryos into mothers. The key was mixing cells from very early stage embryos when each individual embryonic cell is totipotent, capable of giving rise to a whole animal as well as the placenta and other life-sustaining tissues. (This is in contrast to pluripotent stem cells, which can differentiate into any tissue type in the body, but not extra-embryonic tissues or entire organisms.)"
The potential is now obvious, for homo sapiens sapiens is, of course, a primate, and the potential is now wide open for similar techniques to be applied to more advanced primates, as we have blogged hereon this site previously: we can imagine human chimpanzee chimeras, "humanzees" for example. In any case, Malitipov indicates and implicates human experimentation is just around the corner:
"'We cannot model everything in the mouse,' Mitalipov continued. 'If we want to move stem cell therapies from the lab to clinics and from the mouse to humans, we need to understand what these primate cells can and can't do. We need to study them in humans, including human embryos.' He emphasized, however, that there is no practical use or intention for anyone to produce human chimeras."
But this is, to my mind, more than just a bit disingenuous, for if such studies are to be done in human embryos, it stands to reason that similar chimerical engineering techniques would have to be applied, and thus, inevitably, science will wonder and inquire about the long term effects of its engineering, and hence, such chimerical creations will have to be allowoed to grow and mature. And with this will inevitably come the debate on whether such a creature is "human" or not in the sense of its civil rights. Already we see where the trend is going by the adoption of morally neutral sounding "scientific" tems: "embryo," "foetus," and so on. So I want to go on record here and now, that in my opinion, clones, chimeras and so on, should be accorded such protections and rights, and should not be considered the mere "property" of whatever corporation or laboratory as concocts them. Down that path, as I outlined in Genes, Giants, Monsters, and Men, lies a trap.
But let there be no mistake, for the issue will become one of "drawing the line." Should such rights and protections be accorded to a chimera with, say, only 1% or less of human DNA? What about a chimera with, say, 98% human DNA and only 2% rhesus and other creatures? Is the question reducible to such statistical and percentage point materialism at all? Rest assured, the ethical issues are not going to go away, but only grow more and more intense.
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Wow, you have to see this video that shows the latest human/animal crossing of DNA. I never realized how far science has come in this splicing debacle:
The issue of status is already decided – by the USPTO. If they use patented genes, which they will, then the “organism” will belong to the patent holder. This has been the direction of such decisions all along. You can see how the wall has been built, patent by patent, along with the “leniency” of giving patents on what can only be called natural items, to give them the basis in law for ultimate control through such things.
Even if such creatures are allowed any semblance of a real life, they will have to, at the very least, pay “royalties” to the patent holders, effectively creating a race of bond slaves. Welcome to Blade Runner.
Then, of course, the elite will no longer have any need of us troublesome “real people,” they can have their “designer slaves” and various “final solutions” will begin in earnest for the rest of us. In fact, said slaves will probably be used as storm troopers, if they can produce enough of them – the strength of a gorilla or even chimp would make them formidable indeed, and with no memory or history of any kind, they can be provided with whatever sense of loyalty and lack of ethics might be desired.
And I am willing to bet that such research is much more advanced in black projects. The fact that they are breaking this level publicly means they are much further along (again usually 30-40 years) in the secret world. They do not release technology until they already have a lock on using and controlling it.
Unfortunately, I think they are biting off far more than they can chew. This will blow up in our faces, big time. Maybe this is what all the Zombie Apocalypse stuff is preparing us for.
” Is the question reducible to such statistical and percentage point materialism at all?”
I read a great quote once about DNA in general. the basic idea was that if chimps have about 98% of “our” (human) DNA (another way of saying that is to say that 98% of chimps’ DNA is identical to that of humans), well . . . . .many humans differ from each other in physical appearance (size, skin/hair color, strength, etc) by A WHOLE LOT MORE than 2%. And the difference between chimps and humans is, well, from a practical level, close to infinite: we are not the same thing. The difference between chimps and humans is just way more than 2%. “Any fool can plainly see” this. Which means that DNA cannot be the foundation of what we (or any other species) are. Biochemistry is not the whole picture. There is something else, call it what you will.
I greatly appreciate Dr. Farrell’s scholasticism and the ability to think analytically. I also appreciate the type of readers this attracts. It all contributes to the mix.
But my background is METAPHYSICS, not physics. Like most people, I am still trying to excavate what is original birthright from social engineering, but I DO still believe that that North America, especially, is experiencing the reincarnational “re-do” of Atlantis, for the most part. THIS is our karmic challenge as a nation! Many/most of us “were there” and we are now HERE to see if we can do it right this time. We f&ck’d up before, big time. If only by failing to stop those who were headlong into abuse on all levels.
I can’t seem to shake off an innate (deja vu?) sense of dread when it comes to the topic of genetic manipulation. I realize there are great potential benefits to humanity here medically, IF shepherded humanely and wisely. Therein lies the rub. As long as the dark side is still firmly in control of this planet, which unfortunately, if somewhat tenuously lately, it seems it is….then I can NOT feel good about ANY genetic research, whatsoever! And that is a big loss!
I would not have said that (“no good can come of it so I cannot support it”) a few years ago. I was then still somewhat trusting that our sciences were still in the beginning stages of this research…even as I hoped with all my heart it was not already too late. But now I see that EVERYTHING has the potential to be weaponized and for some ridiculous reason, humanity/consciousness seems to grow from the bottom to the top on all new areas so it goes without saying that this technology WILL will be MIS-used before it is potentialized positively.
Back to the metaphysics. Sometime about 18-24 months ago I had a very vivid “real” dream. I should mention here that my primary source of intuition is through my dream state, and I have over 35 years’ experience in exploring time/space in this way. I find that I am more in touch with my authentic Self, as well as information not limited by time/space when my left/analytical/beta brain is firmly unconscious. I do my BEST work in this state. (I guess I am apologizing to the left-brained crowd in advance for a thoroughly right-brained “share” to follow…)
In this very real feeling alternate reality, I found myself in a natural habitat, kind of like I imagine the Wild Animal Park in San Diego to be (although I have never actually been there). A “mini” sahara. It was full of elephants, mainly, which I loved from past lives also. A “Garden of Eden,” so to speak.
Suddenly, I came face to face with a young woman with the face of a human but with a full ruff/mane around her face like a male lion! She had other animal/human mixtures to her physicality also, but I couldn’t take time to observe because as soon as she saw MY face she gasped and came toward me with her eyes and mouth open in awe and her hands and fingers reaching forward gently to feel and look at my face more carefully. The rest continued telepathically. I “got” that SHE “got” that I represented what she SHOULD be as a human, but was not because, in fact, she is “just an experiment” in a genetics program! My total sense about it was that this was happening on THIS planet at THIS time and I had somehow found myself here in a real-time (secret government experiment) because of my own resonant sympathy for the plight of chimeras! Now THERE is my past life connection! Been there, done that. It wasn’t pretty then and I am re-born to block it from reoccurring now! To continue…
Once her gasp of horrible recognition took place, she turned from me, gasping and choking, her eyes and shoulders downcast, and she slumped to her knees in sobs. It tore my heart out to feel her pain. As well as my own powerlessness to do anything to help or comfort her.
I woke from that “dream” with a new knowing that these technologies are ALREADY being abused in secret government super-soldier project labs and that there already ARE human/animal chimeras who are in deep existential pain over their predicament!
So, Joseph, I am 100% with you in your declaration that all chimeras, etc., should be considered “full humans.” Yes, we HAVE heard this story before. Only last time, WE were the hybrids!
What a painful legacy we are collectively re-exploring at this time. I hope my sharing of this very personal story will help some of you feel deeply into your being and naturally find there the essential (essence!) wrongness of what is happening in science and transhumanism with regards to mixing species in this way. Nothing could be more “viscerally” WRONG than this! Why are we facing it AGAIN as a collective? What do we need to do to wake up to the threat of THIS!
This truly IS a spiritual war for our very HUMANITY! We had better figure out exactly what it is that makes us human and get on with it before it is but a historical footnote.
“This truly IS a spiritual war for our very HUMANITY! We had better figure out exactly what it is that makes us human and get on with it before it is but a historical footnote.”
I am 100% with you on this last sentence, really!
They are my very sentiments as well.
IF ONLY WE KNEW?
I honestly agree with the SURFACE meaning of this SENTENCE — BUT when I begin to examine or DECONSTRUCT THE SENTENCE —-
IT ALL FALLS APART!!!!!!!!!
It may not be like that ( a war ) AT ALL (one interpretation but not the only one? Who can really TRANSLATE THE MEANING OF A SENTENCE IN THIS POST-MODERN WORLD?)
I am going to let the ARROGANT part of HUMANISM be and focus on its admirable parts (FRAGMENTS) otherwise I end up CONDEMNING THE ENTIRE LOT (humanity) like some ECOLOGISTS DO!)
As I think of Christianity —- BIOLOGICAL LIFE in some ways would have been BETTER OFF if HUMANS never EXISTED!
One Question is: ARE WE REALLY REDEEMABLE? ( at times I am not so sure. Then I see some small kind act by some ordinary nobody ( a genuine humane being) and my hopes are raised again.
I heard that when PANDORA opened that LOUSY BOX to the world the LAST THING NOT TO ESCAPE was = FALSE HOPE!
My Wife insists I got this MYTH ALL WRONG! (perpetual optimist that she is she protests too much indicating to me she is hiding all the pain and suffering beneath the 1 foot of depth just like what WILLIAMS JAMES called the MIND-CURE TYPES in his book “The Varieties of Religious Experience.”)
Citizen Quasar says :
Conceptual thought allows for, and requires, a rational faculty: reason, which, among other characteristics, identifies values, a value being that which one acts to gain and/or keep, prioritizes them, and acts in accordance with this prioritization.
Possession of a rational faculty requires that faculty to be able to operate unimpeded by physical force. This brings us to the concept of rights, a right being an abstraction which an animal is unable to even comprehend.
But would we always recognize conceptual thought? To make our concptual thoughts recognized we use primarely speech. Would we recognize conceptual thought for instance by intelligent beings using sonar? I doubt it. I am sorry to say with our limited view of what “conceptual thought” is we would condem a lot of intilligence to slavery or ownership to do with wat we will. Not to mention religion implication we still use today to discriminate each other.
Has ‘just’ come to light from the dark?
What’s in the wings, that didn’t make it into the lights?
I’am sure ‘hits’ have alredy been made, AND Blockbusters are being financed as we speak.
Property’s line may encircle us all in time.
Side note: I’m not sure how many people will see your Pythagoras posting so I’m adding this here…
Speaking of the Pythagoras conference, has anyone around these parts seen the Pythagoras conference speech just given by the Japanese Princess which was taken down not 48 hours after being posted and now is recirculating!!!!! This is from a few days ago!!!
Curious on anyone else’ thoughts…
Did you see where that (sic) scientist grew an EAR ON HIS ARM. ( Is this a hoax? )
If so I want to ask him if he could grow an arm/hand on my back with five fingers so I can have a little five-finger-discount on my own?
(Notice the FOOD PRICES! and all this GMO merchandise. SOMEBODY HELP – I don’t want an extra nose on my face!)
It’s no joke for a 1.30$ rise in the price of rice causes starvation for millions around the world! ( when I was a boy I knew this pig farmer who had an agreement to collect all the ‘GARBAGE’ these fancy restaurants around town threw out.) He was a clever farmer. His pigs must be very FAT by now?)
Forget about Q-PHYSICS — try an internship at WHATS-A-MATTA-U in DUMPSTER DIVING if you want to keep up WITH THE TIMES!
No, not a hoax.
I’m reading about that particular (suppressed, of course!)
The book came out in 1985 !
“The Body Electric”
by Robert O Becker, MD
Healing, Electromagnetics and Regeneration.
If Q – Physics and the Biological Sciences didn’t worry so much about FUNDING for their departments something marvelous could come out of them.
I hear its like the battle between Science and Religion – INCURABLE!
I posted too fast? Somebody is always worried about FUNDING. It’s the name of the game and a way the power-mongrals keep those wimps in white coats (not really) in line. (How much did you say that instrument we MUST HAVE costs? WHAT!!!!!!! ACCESS isn’t only important in POLITICS?)
What I meant to say is each Science on their own is great. Think what could be POSSIBLE if both joined or COMBINED FORCES.
I think that would really be a QUANTUM LEAP?
I don’t get it(?)
Even if a god existed that wants to be worshipped while
you are on your hands and knees, remain mysterious to you
and aloof, different for everyone, obeyed unquestioningly
[where’s the choice? we are already slaves to the ELITE & its State puppets]
and give you ?ever?lasting?life [nothing will EVER change ! ]
[there would have to be NO children ever born in “heaven”]
you would learn nothing but how to WORSHIP him—
this god is infinite, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent
adinfintum, adnausium (NOT)
[I’m already sick]
WHO CREATED SCIENCE????????
Why? How? What for?
the ‘devil’ [getting sicker] CANNOT create anything—
evidently god hates science………………
I’m not making sense here, but THIS is what people BELIEVE (??????????)
Send me to hell!
I’m used to it !
WE ARE in the middle of a Quantum Leap !
Everything is already in the process of changing !
Even the sun
[through time manipulation]
is looking for its rightful place.
You all baffle me and I’m outahere
It’s so SIMPLE……………..
How can anyone not know that?
You exist don’t you? How?
I’ve known and certainly understood
this utter simplicity ever since I can remember…………….
Thought is the vibration [prime energy]
that creates matter [strings]
Your probably right when you mentioned I wasn’t taking ALL your posts in mind/CONSIDERATION. (sometimes viewed as “out of context)
I confess —- I was taking one ‘TINY MORSEL” of yours and going YUMMY-YUMMY!
(or picking the meat left on the BONES as someone else might say although I am not like my pet Golden Retriever?)
When SHE comes across a tasty-bone she CRUNCHES it in her JAWS IN TWO SECONDS FLAT! ( I use to think it was to get at the marrow but since then I heard dogs eat the bone and all!)
Hungry natural-scavengers they are!
a totally Conscious Living, Intelligent, Self-Aware Universe
which includes YOU.
And like a hologram; not inside of you or you inside of It;
an infinity Totality——EVERYTHING !
ALL of It contained in EVERY piece you could break it into;
[which is true of Love, also; not the physical emotion or pleasure,
love is a principle]
Religions are a result of MILLENNIA of brainwashing.
It started with the keepers of the ‘secrets of science,’
strict perview of the PRIESTS in the TEMPLES
who were therefore SCIENTISTS and became objects of POWER
from that SCIENCE and therefore NOT understood,
representing [somethng (?) ] to be worshipped and feared.
AND BOY, DID THEY MILK IT !
This is for Hal
It is so SIMPLE.
“You Exist don”t You/’
Just as someone tells their friend ‘You got a RUN in your nylons” I will say:
“HAL – YOUR DESCARTES-SLIP IS SHOWING?
How can anyone DOUBT their own EXISTENCE?
EASILY – THAT’S HOW!
Actually, IT’S VERY SIMPLE!
Foucault states this in his difficult and less understandable manner:
“ALL SUBJECTIVITY is a PRODUCT of circumstances!”
Does this mean we just came off the ASSEMBLY LINE LIKE SOME CLONE OR WIDGET?”
In a way MODERNITY is one big STOCHOLM SYNDRONE! (we believe our deepest feelings are OUR OWN when in reality they have been PLANTED BY THE DOMINANT ONE? )
Be RUTHLESSLY HONEST HERE. ( that is IF you can even BE (ability to) for that is on the whole —- VANISHING AS WELL!)
Like Al PACHINO said in the movie SCARFACE —-“SAY HELLO TO MY LITTLE FRIEND”
So I say —- “SAY HELLO TO OUR FORMER FRIEND = the DODO BIRD!”
Now if your one of those CRAZY BUDDHISTS (HA, HA!) this might not be such a BAD IDEA?
No, no Descartes.
I knew nothing of Descartes when I was six years old
and never made him a point of study,
although I am famliar.
“I think, therefore I am?”
What I am saying/asking is exactly Who is really
doing the thinking (?)
Thought that becomes a Universe, not a “me.”
I do agree with the idea that one can be in a state of non-existence.
Let’s go to Kant for that.
“God could have created the [Universe] complete with memory
and fossils, ten minutes ago.”
Ever doubt your own memory or be in total conflict with what
you find out from others, or true histories?
One problem is that you are not putting [ALL] my posts together,
but taking each one separately.
Kant was right because Quantum Creation is a fact.
Universal wave collapse creates a NOW from which
all likely time potentialities bloom and flower.
That is a very intelligent, intentional creation.
I like what you have said in your latest post,
but do YOU fully appreciate/understand it?
I think not, or you would better understand what I am saying.
My cleaning help understands it, not necessarily with validity,
but she understands it !
Touche, Paul [for NOW 😉 ]
This idea of LIFE being someone’s property has a familiar ring to it, doesn’t it?
It would be nice TO BELIEVE we are a little more MORALLY DEVELOPED than that?
Maybe we are?
Maybe some real PROGRESS has been made.
Specifically, this: In 1972, a large testing ground for exploring the interaction of subatomic particles was built in the Mugrab region of Pamir, and a scientific station was opened, called “Pamir-Chacaltaya. However, the scientists at the Swiss collider, mainly, are working with common kinds of energy, while the physicists at the Chacaltaya station worked with ultra-high energy. Mr. Khakim Akhmedov from the Tajik Academy of Science explains: Modern accelerative machines can speed subatomic particles up to the speed of 10 to 12 electron-volts. However, in open space, particles move with much higher speeds – and the further from the Earth, the quicker. In fact, you don’t need a collider to imitate the movement of particles if you have a powerful camera which can fix their movements in their normal conditions, in open space.”
As the saying goes,
“WE have been what ‘we’ are waiting for.”