DONETSK PLANS REFERENDUM ON JOINING RUSSIA

These days, there is so much going on in the world of finance, geopolitics, and science, that it's impossible to keep up with, but this is a story that needs to be mentioned, especially since we covered recent news about Great Britain and China in our last News and Views from the Nefarium. Regular readers here know that my (high octane) suspicion and speculation is that the USA has been "shifting eastward" in its NATO basing to both to counter "Russian aggression" in the Ukraine, and, I suspect, for the more hidden purpose of keeping western Europe under its (currently insane) thumb by basing in the old cordon sanitaire of Poland, the Baltic States, and Romania, for the purpose of keep Europe and Russia apart, and to make interdiction of Russian energy supplies and other commerce between Europe and Russia much easier.

With that in mind, contemplate the current moves afoot in the Donbass region of the eastern Ukraine, where since the US-sponsored coup in Kiev, there has been fighting(this article shared by Mr. G.B.):

East Ukraine's Donetsk Republic Will Hold Referendum To Join Russia

Rebels in Ukraine's Donetsk plan referendum on joining Russia: media

What is disturbing here is to contemplate the results of such a referendum, which only the willfully blind would believe would go Kiev's way, which which case, all eyes would be, once again, on Washington and Mooscow, and peripherally, on Paris and Berlin. For Mr. Putin's part, having established the precedent of allowing such a referendum in the Crimea, it would be difficult to ignore a similar call for readmission to Russia. While the strategic stakes are not as high as they were with the Russian Black Sea Flee's traditional base at Sevastopol at stake in the Crimean mess(and the clear US attempt to deny that base to Russia), theey are signifficant in that Russia will have to measure its response carefully with tensions as high between Washington and Moscow as they are.

There are other factors playing in the background here as well, both for Russia, and for the Ukraine. A return of the Donbass to Moscow's jurisdiction ccould perhaps excite similar moves and pressures against Kiev, particularly in the Ciscarpathian Ukraine near Hungary, and regions close to the old pre-war borders of Poland. Pro-Russian elements in Budapest might be tempted to welcome similar referenda in the Ciscarpathian, and such moves would, once again, probably inject Berlin into the process. If so, then - for those really paying attention - it could be seen as a confirmation of the surreal predictions and policies of the Madrid Circular that I outlined in my most recent book, The THird Way.

But on the Washington side of the equation, things are equally surreal, for having injected itself in the problems in the Ukraine - problems at least as old as World War One and the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk, if not much older - the neo-con lunatics driving American foreign (im)policy will be hard-pressed to avoid further escalation, for consider, no matter how hard Mr. Obama or Mr. Kerry might try to defuse the situation, any moves they make in that respect will summon the usual cries of the Obama Administration being "soft on Russia," (one can hear LIndsey Graham and John McCain even now).

Is there any room for our trademark High Octane Speculation here? Well, some, but not very much. But suppose, for a moment, that Russia manages to convince everyone that a referendum should be held under UN supervision, and that all parties will abide by it. That would, of course, "legitimize" the whole thing in pretty much everyone's eyes, except, of course, in Washington. So again, we're left without much wiggle room. Which leads us back to the Kremlin once again.The Ukraine appears to be headed for a crack-up, and is sustainable only by dint of Western military power in the region, and even that may not be enough.

My bet is the phone lines are burning between Moscow, Beijing, and New Delhi. If they're on board, then Donbass is on the menu. And if that's the case, then the weakness of the US case and power in the region is exposed. And if that's the case, then those borders in the western Ukraine may be headed for yet another major revision fairly quickly.

See you on the flip side...

27 thoughts on “DONETSK PLANS REFERENDUM ON JOINING RUSSIA”

  1. Dana,

    I love it when these elites use “national pride and heritage” for their obscure purposes and yet Britain is overrun with migration that is tearing the country and social fabric apart by forced migration with a culture that is so far removed from the West that there never will be social cohesion.

    1. I think were are various oligarch factions working in (or should we say “on”) the UK and who knows how things will turn out. Having lived there I suspect that social cohesion will prove unexpectly strong, thus disappointing the more globalist oligarchs.
      While here in Italy, there is a slow-but-steady return home of Romanian immigrants, hit like everyone else by the current economic crisis and fed up with wage and housing exploitation.
      And the future? If I had the skill I would write a Frankie-like piece on 3rd and 4th generation Indian Brits vying with one another to get back – clandestinely if necessary – to the prosperous, warm sub-continent, fleeing those grimy, rainy Midland towns and those English country lanes congested with fanatical all-weather cyclists, horse-riders and dog-walkers…

      1. Hi Dana,
        I’m curious as to whether or not there are other ethnic groups departing Italy other than Romanians. My late father was born in a mountain village southeast of Rome and came here in the early 1900s. Close relatives have died off, but the last I heard a few years ago, when my sister visited, was that the town had not changed much. The Pesci estate (Pope Leo Thirteen) had been turned into a museum. Thanks for your first hand reports from around Europe by the way. db

        1. 2008-2012 official statistics (from ISTAT) for immgrants to Italy who have gone back to their home country (top 3 countries): 1) Romania = 35,500; 2) Poland = 6,369; 3) Morocco: 6,299.
          Poland has been in the EU since 2004 and Romania since 2007.

  2. Ach liebling’s,Poland wants its territories Kruschev annexed into his homeland Ukraine when he was the premier of the Soviet Union (so much for the Ukraine not being part of Soviet Russia seeing as the supreme soviet leader was a Ukrainian,and not an ethnic one either). When Poland gets its lands back from the Ukraine(arranged by Germany) then Germany can take back lower silesia and other former germman lands now held by Poland (and others). Deutschland will give the Russians all the Ukrainian eastern territory they want as long as Germany gets what hers in the end. We have berlin and the east of germany returned to the reich,now for the rest of the Vaderland to be returned from the hands of the untermenchen. (hand salute:Hang Hitler!)

      1. Yes, Joseph Stalin went way back in history to establish the current Polish western borders, prior to the incursions of the Germanic tribes into Slavic lands.

        The USSR itself argued for three or more seats at the United Nations as the USSR contains so many “Nations” They did settle for Belorussia and The Ukraine having representation based on historical cultural differences and issues.

        If any group should have claims on the Crimea, it should be the ethnic Tatars who were removed and replaced by Russians and Ukrainians during Stalin’s ethnic purges. The Tatars are prohibited by Russia from agitating for self governance in The Crimea and are vastly outnumbered.

        Wayne

    1. Despite rumours of Nazi International plans, no border changes of this type seem to be on the cards in the near future. Historical factors can come into play but it’s hard to say how far. In terms of historical precedent the Polish claim on Silesia is actually more longstanding than the Prussian/German claim. While there is nationalist nostalgia in Poland regarding Lwow/Lviv, that area was “depolonized” by the Soviets while Silesia, with its mineral resources, has now been settled by Poles dispossessed in the East and certainly not willing to move out voluntarily.
      Border changes in Poland and “Mitteleuropa” would end up upsetting more people and countries than it would make “happy” (though of course this is no obstacle to power-hungry oligarchies as shown in the Balkans…). I think that it would take another war to trigger a process of “population engineering” and the shifting of millions of people, with all its tragic and destructive consequences.
      There is a Pangermanic lobby entertaining these dreams. But now Germany’s population is falling, and at present rates will be overtaken by France in 2050! So unlike past centuries, when “colonists” willing left the poor German States to seek their fortune in the East, they have no incentive to do so now: the only “colonists” are banking and corporate.
      Even the Berlin nationalists will have to admit that the “great chessboard” has changed since Frederick the Great and Bismarck. Both horizontally, with powerful new players, and “vertically” with the space question coming to the forefront.

    2. It is an interesting question…

      Russia is waiting for the Ukraine to implode. My guess is that the longer the Kiev-ian government remains in control, the more devastating the ‘failed state’ scenario will be. From there, it will be a mix of Russia’s self-interest, Neocons ‘not letting a good crisis go to waste’, and Zionists trying to set up a new/old homeland. Not to mention, as stated, all the old East European historical ‘claims’.

      Blood in the water…

  3. … hmm, the eastern Oblasts rejoin Russian, the western ones join Poland and Hungary, then what’s left of “Ukraine”? answer is probably in the works: the “New Khazaria” the real homeland of the majority of the world’s Jews as well as Neo-Cons, Nuland & Co, etc.

    https://youtu.be/naoe8KF_3Kw

    1. He gets a lot right a lot of the time. I’d say that it isn’t in Russia’s interest to take over eastern Ukraine. No it suits them a lot better to have the industrial heartland of the Ukraine as a buffer to it’s own territory. They’ll supply lots of “stuff” and mercenaries to help the citizens protect themselves from the Nazis but I don’t see a German/Russia division of Poland type deal happening.

      Why risk the international blow back? Why take on debt from that portion of the Ukraine? Why not just let the Ukraine stew in its own feces? Once Ukraine becomes a super-failed state they support the east and it is their buffer.

  4. Does a template for these kinds of political theatre exist in the duopoly theme of US vs. Them; East vs. West; North vs. South; a demarcation of North & South Korea; of West & East Germany? Are “they moving towards the tried & true; old-worn-out,
    West Ukraine vs. East Ukraine?
    Please spar me another Soap Sponsored Series of political melodramas that take the eyes off the ballgame being played under our very noses.

  5. Russia’s waiting game in Ukraine has paid off remarkably well. It has opened a deep schism between perennial patsy Europe and Washington, thanks to the NeoZioNaziCrazis that have burrowed like ticks into the heart of the US foreign policy apparat, and who orchestrated the coup and then chose the “government,” stole the gold and brought in the corporate bloodsuckers,, Biden’s son among them, and then forced Europe to shoot its own foot with the sanctions — all of this in their deranged, deluded neo-Strangelovian echo-chamber, a surreal clown show of war-mongering psychopaths trying to do realpolitik… Oh, and let’s not forget the failed MH-17 false-flag mass-murder, either. (Still waiting on that Dutch report, and I will be, until the 12th of Never.)

    In reaction, Russia immeiately secured Crimea by ballot and now, apparently, Donetsk, which by virtue of being the central battleground of post-putsch Ukraine since the outset, clearly will never return to Kiev, even by force. So Russia will regain Ukraine piece by piece, and I do not expect them to be so timid as to demur to the results of the referendum, once conducted. Donetsk is a drop in the bucket of the largest country on earth, with a surface area of over 17 million square kilometers.

    I don’t think the Russians really care any more what Washington thinks, as they have clearly had enough of the rabid demonization and have reassessed their threat posture vis-a-vis Washington, which is no long a “partner” but a threat (as it always has been). So what should they care what that band of insane ideologically rabid sociopaths rants “no! no! no! You are evil!”? I think they have moved on, and have realized Washington is in accelerating terminal decline by just about any metric.

  6. I like to read about both (or all) sides of an issue before contemplating the probable truth of said issue. In the case of the Ukraine, I recommend “The Saker” for another side of this proxy war. They do a good job of examining issues all the way from a Brzezinski/Kissinger-level on down to battlefield intricacies – all from a more-eastern viewpoint. Makes for a good counterbalance to western propaganda.

    Within “The Saker” analysis, it is a given that the whole Ukraine ‘maneuver’ is an effort to draw Russia into invading the Ukraine. Although the Russian armed forces would wipe out the Ukrainian forces within a week, the Brzezinski/Kissinger-style ‘plan’ is for exactly that to happen. The Russians would win militarily, but have their Cold War ‘reputation’ restored – through massive western propaganda of “Invasion!”. A tactical win, but a strategic defeat.

    From “The Saker” viewpoint, Russia’s interests are served by merely bolstering/backstopping Donetsk’s militia (and others) to where they offset the Kiev-ian invasion forces. Thrust, counterthrust. In the long run, Russia simply waits for the Ukraine to implode from various known forces. Then, a ‘karma-free’ solution can happen…

    Now, the Donetsk forces have been awaiting a Minsk2-voiding assault in the later-summer. They fully-expect it, as to do otherwise would hasten the Ukrainian implosion. They even have a map of the likely invasion routes:
    http://thesaker.is/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Ukie-plan-of-attack-on-Novorussia.jpg

    So, how does “East Ukraine’s Donetsk Republic Will Hold Referendum To Join Russia” fit into the above? My take is that this is a ‘fallback’ plan…

    The betting money is that – in the upcoming attack – the massively-reinforced Kiev-ian forces will make initial gains. Then, they will get pushed into pockets as in previous forays. Russia will respond to pressure from US/French/Germany leadership, and allow Kiev-ian withdrawal (minus their equipment) in a Dunkirk-style retreat rather than a Stalingrad-style victory. After that, Russia will simply wait for the Ukraine to implode.

    However, there is a chance that the defenders could get overrun. In that case, a successful referendum would be a semi-legal justification for a limited Russian ‘invasion’ – in order to protect would-be Russian citizens from an unprovoked attack. In other words, a way to counteract the Brzezinski/Kissinger-style strategic-scenario…

  7. Dr. Farrel, will you please read pages 629 – 636 of Father Malachi Martin’s book “The Keys of This Blood”, the introduction of “The Decline and Fall of the Roman Church”, and pages 7 – 20 of “Windswept House” when you have time? Will you please comment on them? Thank you! Scott

  8. The Ukraine is just one symptom of the cancer that Washington has become; think more in terms of BRICSA conquering Amerika without firing a single shot:

    Step #1) attack the dollar and U.S. debt instruments.

    Step #2) A massive cyber warfare attack on the U.S. infrastructure.

    Step #3) Attack U.S. military satellites to maximize the disruption of military communications, banking transactions, emergency services and other systems that depend on satellite communications.

    Step #4) Wait for the implosion to subside, send in colonists to repopulate the land mass with ready made housing and infrastructure (well what’s left of it anyway) already in place.

    Step #5) Wait for the Elite to leave their underground bunkers and just shoot them; good riddance.

    Step #6) Wave bye to the indispensable nation and it’s unipolar world. Since our list of allies has grown very thin, I wouldn’t count on anyone rushing to our rescue.

    We are no doubt ripe for this, as the government has positioned us quite well for it. When you rely on technology too much for superiority; screw over your allies constantly and meddle in the internal affairs of every nation on earth to secure resources for global corporations that could care less about America; you’re asking for big trouble.
    This nation could be great once more if its people would just wake up from their drugged, preprogrammed, government subsidy coma.

  9. There was a article in yesterdays Phys.org about test on increasing survival rats of rats against nuclear radiation. Could this be a trial balloon to put forth the idea that nuclear war is survivable. Are the Neo-Confederate-Neo-Feudalist in Richmond Virginia dreaming up starting a nuclear to prevent loosing their strangle hold over the Earth they have now.

  10. Tidbit for lovers of coded messages. In her speech at Bellevue Palace during the State visit to Germany last June, Queen Elizabeth II recalled how Donetsk was founded in the 19th century by a Welsh engineer. Now just why was she was telling this to the German President? Broaching the topic nobody seems to be talking about, i.e. the current German role in the Ukraine. The subsequent reference to Emanuel Kant’s Scottish ancestry (original surname Cant) could, perhaps, just be put down to “national pride”. Or perhaps not: a way of saying that former Koenigsberg is “off limits”?
    https://youtu.be/fiul7F6T5_g

  11. Let’s assume the world doesn’t end this September on account of CERN (and yes, I don’t know about the rest of you but I am shedding particles like crazy. I feel like I don’t have a quark left in my body. It is very disorienting to say the least. I’m trying to find a good doctor or website with some helpful info on quark deficiency but as of yet I have found nothing. We are in unchartered territory for sure. Some of the symptoms of quark deficiency are lightheadedness, weight loss, inane babbling, vertigo, inability to lift feet off the ground when walking, and transgenderism. I’m thinking about starting my own support group to see if there are others feeling these symptoms. I am also starting to wonder if the GMOs and chemtrails we are being exposed to are possibly not as sinister as we have all speculated but in fact an attempt by the Breakaway Civilization to stave off quark-deficiency until they can finish their groundbreaking LHC experiments and hopefully create a new virgin universe where we can all get a fresh start in. Btw, I have already lost .00021 lbs. which, coincidently, is also the trace amount of gold in the average human body. Other theory— the LHC just a giant magnet sucking the gold out of our body and imperceptibly pulling all the extracted human gold to Switzerland).

    Anyway, to get back on topic, assuming the world does not end this September as so many youtubians are postulating, could we see in the next 10 or 20 years parts of the United States voting to join Russia? I was thinking initially those states along the Pacific across from Russia like Alaska, Washington and Oregon. Alaska certainly could make a case as it used to be part of Russia and many of its inhabitants trace their lineage to Siberia many thousands of years ago and still speak a language in common with the inhabitants of the Russian Far East. Washington and Oregon could certainly find common cause with Putin’s Russia over the GMO issue and even culturally as many of the residents of Portland and Seattle dress like Soviet-era refugees. And what about California you ask? It may be no coincidence that the largest number of Russian mail order brides reside in California. Is this Putin’s stealthy and voluptuous invasion force who’s offspring may one day vote “yes” on the referendum to join Russia?

    1. Like a finely aged whiskey, your writing become an acquired taste that COUNTERS the Absurdistand technological landscapes, shaping the way we think & behave.
      Well Done!!!

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