ROSCOSMOS: WHEN WE GO TO THE MOON, WE’LL CHECK IF THE AMERICANS ...
Just a short time ago I blogged about Russia's Moon plans, and as a follow-up, Mr. N.P. and Mr. B (and a few others), noticed this curious story: It seems that Mr. Dmitry Rogozin, head of Russia's Roscosmos, joked to reporters about Russia's plans to verify if the USA actually went to the Moon during the Apollo program, or not. Here's two versions of the story:
Russia's top space official says their mission to the moon will help verify conspiracy theory
Russia will check if Americans really went to the Moon – Roscosmos chief
And here's the Business Insider's (the first link above) version:
The head of Russia's Roscosmos space agency has said that a proposed Russian mission to the moon will be tasked with verifying that the American moon landings were real.
"We have set this objective to fly and verify whether they've been there or not," said Dmitry Rogozin in a video posted Saturday on Twitter.
Rogozin was responding to a question about whether or not NASA actually landed on the moon nearly 50 years ago. He appeared to be joking, as he smirked and shrugged while answering. But conspiracies surrounding NASA's moon missions are common in Russia.
The Soviet Union abandoned its lunar program in the mid-1970s after four experimental moon rockets exploded.
In 2015, a former spokesman for the Russian Investigative Committee called for an investigation into NASA moon landings. (Emphasis added)
And here's RT's version (the second link above):
Have the Americans been on the Moon or it’s just a hoax as conspiracy theorists claim? All questions will be answered when the Russian cosmonauts visit the Earth’s satellite, Russia’s space boss, promised.
“We’ve set such a task – to go there and check if they were there or not,” Dmitry Rogozin joked in response to the popular question about the moon exploration. “The Americans say – they’ve been there. We’ll verify that.”
Switching to a more serious tone, he said that no country is currently capable of fulfilling a successful lunar program on its own. Russia (is) expecting to cooperate with the US in exploring the Earth’s satellite, Rogozin said as he visited a Russian spacecraft engine manufacturer in Moscow. (Boldface emphasis added)
Now, if you're like me, you like to read between the lines a bit, especially when it's coming from Russia, and especially when it's coming from the head of its space program, and especially if the head of said Russian space program appears to be joking. Uh huh.... nod nod, wink wink, elbow jab. Now, just for the record, I'm not an Apollo hoaxer, i.e., I'm not one of those who believe we didn't go at all, and that the whole thing was hoaxed on a movie set, in some versions, courtesy of Stanley Kubrick. But on the other hand, I'm not one of those entirely dismissive of the "problems" that the hoaxers have spotted, some of which to my mind are not real problems, and others which honestly are. So I'm one of those who questions certain details in the overall narrative. One of my chiefest problems with the "complete hoax" scenario has always been why the Soviet Union didn't blow the lid off of it right away, which they could easily have done. Why remain silent about it? After all, the Cold War was in full swing, Richard Nixon was in the White House, Leonid Brezhnev was in the Kremlin.
The upshot of it is, when the head of Russia's space program gets asked a question about the Apollo missions, and jokes about Russia finding out for certain whether or not it actually did happen (or, for those of you who are in my position that it happened, but not like we've been told it happened), then I sit up and pay attention, because of course it gets my high octane speculation juices flowing. In this case, I have a few crock pots of various suspicion casseroles simmering as well.
Suspicion One: Rogozin is sending messages, mainly to NASA, but also to "other interested parties." The other interested parties are, of course, all those other nations that have sent probes to, or around, the Moon: China, Japan, India, Europe (aka Germany-France). The problem here is: what's the message? If you know, keep quiet about it, let us be the point men? But as far as NASA goes, Rogozin has already indicated that the Russian mission will be heavily reliant upon robots to do the initial scouting, and preparations, for a human lunar base. Certainly those robots could be landed close to the Apollo sites, and meander on over for a closer look at... what? Nothing? or at some sort of technology that changes the whole narrative (including the possibility of technology that the USA did not bring there, but found there)?
Suspicion Two: After Rogozin had his little "joke," he then goes on, according to the RT article, to state that no one country is now capable of "fulfilling a successful lunar program on its own." Ok, I thought, tell that to China, Japan, and India, which seem to be doing pretty good so far. But then, after his joke, the real bombshell comes with his statement that Russia is "expecting to cooperate with the US in exploring the Earth's satellite." Say what? I thought we were supposed to be mad at each other, and that there were sanctions and all that. The remark is made all the more curious, in that the USA has no heavy lift vehicles capable of lunar missions, and is currently reliant upon private contractors (and Russia) to get anything from "down here" to "up there." So what's going on here? Did President Trump pull a leaf from President Kennedy's playbook, and quietly offer to have a joint lunar mission with Mr. Khrushche....er... I mean... Mr. Putin? Is this another subtle but tacit admission that there may be, and may have been, other technologies besides big bottle rockets in play? Or, conversely, is this another admission that there is a "deep fix in" to keep whatever happened(or didn't happen) with Project Apollo under firm Russo-American wraps?
Suspicion Three: That "deep fix" idea may not sound entirely plausible, until one recalls that curious circumstance that I mentioned back in 2006 in my book The SS Brotherhood of the Bell, namely, that when one looked at a table of Soviet and American lunar probe launches prior to Apollo, the one thing that becomes immediately apparent is the pattern: first the Soviets would launch a few probes, then go quiet. Then the Americans would launch a few probes, then go quiet, as the Soviets took their turn again, and so on. Back in the day, this was presented by American (and Soviet) media as a "space race." The coincidental pattern was just that: a coincidental pattern that resulted from the "race." In short, we were provided a narrative by which to interpret the data. But turn off the narrative being blocked and rathered by SeeBS News and Walter Concrete and Dan Blather for a moment, and just look at the pattern itself, and there's two basic ways, and not just one, to interpret that pattern: (1) it's a coincidence resulting from the "race," or (2) it's the result of deeper coordination between the two programs. And if we really want to cook this particular suspicion casserole, throw in a little sauce de Alternative Three, where that idea of hidden coordination was first broached in the late 1970s by a major western television outlet: Britain's East Anglia television. That idea may not qualify as a secret space program as such, but it is at least a "secret international coordination of public space programs" that's worth entertaining over a plate of blue chicken wings. As I put it in the book, that hypothesis would have required the presence in both countries of people that could pull off such coordination, and there was only one group of people with such a heavy presence (at least, initially) in both countries' space programs...
Suspicion Four: The Business Insider version of this story adds that the Soviet Union abandoned its manned lunar missions after four of its enormous Saturn-V-sized boosters exploded on their test launches, and that a 2015 investigation on the lunar landings was called for. I've no doubt that such an investigation was probably underway throughout the entire Apollo program, and probably reached a very fevered pitch from Apollo 8 onwards, and that those investigations might have included investigations of the Soviet launch failures, which could very well have been sabotage. So what, exactly, was the 2015 call within Russia for an investigation? More message sending, perhaps, that they were going to reveal the results of those classified KGB studies and analyses under the guise of a new investigation?
The bottom line here, for me at least, is that messages are definitely being sent. The difficulty is, what is the message, and to whom is it being sent?
See you on the flip side...
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Just Apollo Ping Pong being payed on the Grand ChessBoard by way of deflection and deception.
The greatest coperation was the DemoCommunist’s or Commuocracies against a Germany that chose to have it’s own nation. see Major Jordan’s Diaries for that.
Waiting for the Iron Sky 2 movie to get my Fab Facts.
Remember … In the Vacuum of Space, No-one Can Heil you.
One reason the Soviets might not have exposed a moon hoax is the possibility that the US also had something on them. But I do like your implication that some third party could have infiltrated both space programs and hijacked them for its own purposes.
I’m sure NASA would have made plans for what to do if the mission had failed, leaving astronauts dead or stuck on the moon. Might they have prepared some simulation footage? This was, after all, a propaganda mission.
“81-year-old former Hollywood cameraman Max Canard comes clean about his role in what could be the greatest hoax ever carried out: the Apollo moon landing.
“I first walked on the moon in the summer of 1965 — four full years ahead of Neil Armstrong. Of course, neither I nor the Apollo boys really set foot on the moon, but I suppose many of you suspected as much already.””
ya know it’s possible you AND goshawks are right. is anyone here really above the russian doll model of conspiracies?
how many different layers of conspiracy have we each been able to dig down through and get detailed knowledge of on 9/11? heck pick your falsified flag op. how many different layers of patsies do you want for this job sir?
why wouldn’t such an honest organization of paperclipped friendly folk like nasa publish a lovely version of events with some of the finest rose colored glasses for the masses to wear? and then go their own way dealing with whatever it is that they actually did deal with (and incidentally reap all the profits from secretly).
Yes China or India could have easily outed NASA with any of their Lunar probes if these landing had been faked. The real question should have been why the manned space program was deliberately scuddled and the unmanned space program slow boated to a craw.
Doesn’t make sense that the Americans will help the Russians on a mission to expose the moon landing as a fake.
Putin can check with Steven Seagal. They’re tight right?
btw, think we got the robert david steele phenom figured. he’s raving about a documentary he made with the great steven seagal about pedo gate and how we need to protect our children. what do you call it when alex jones acts like he’s blowing whistles on topics when he’s really making the topic sound farcical?
some kind of counter intelligence op. forgot the technical name for it. not honeypot. not gate keeper.
Always had my doubts since he was the #1 reviewer on Amazon.
My first review was unacceptable. You have to fall w/in their edited goal posts.
More of a 21st Century gatekeeper establishing his creds. Still, like Chris Hedges & Noam the Foam, he has some keen insights.
well said. will work with the word gatekeeper till a better one comes to mind. judas goat still seems to fit too.
I’m an admirer of both JPF and Miles Mathis.
Miles term for this is “blackwashing”.
it is a curious think how insightful (and slow) hedges and chimsky are and have been even as they dance in bare feet on hot coals around 911.
“Noam Chomsky is and always has been a Spook” by Miles Mathis:
“That’s right, I didn’t say he looks like a gatekeeper to me; I said he looks like an agent. A spook. It took me a very long time to figure that out. I needed to collate several decades worth of information to figure it out, and still I didn’t want to look at it.”
And, indirectly, on Chris Hedges (p.4):
“With that under your belt, you can go back to the [Orlando Pulse] shooter, Omar Mateen. He also has an IMDB page [url]. He is also an admitted actor. And like Burbano, his page has been scrubbed since the event. If you go here [url], you can see a screenshot of his page from a month ago, which tells us he was in The Big Fix. Did you get that clue? The Big Fix. Hmmm. And yes, that’s the 2012 film with Peter Fonda. It also stars Bernie Sanders as himself. I suggest you use this information to add to your list of outed agents. I suggest everyone in this film may be a spook, including Tim Robbins, Darius Fisher, Rebecca Tickell, Jason Mraz, Jean-Michel Cousteau, Kevin Curole, Margaret Curole, Gregory Funk, Jeff Goodell, Nomi Prins, Amy Smart, Paul Templett, Ed Overton, Greg Palast, Chris Hedges, Bobby Jindal, David Korten, Jim McDermott, Joshua Tickell, and John Perkins.
But wait, you will say, that film was a hardhitting expose of the Gulf Oil Spill and the oil industry. Was it? That is what it seemed to be on the surface, but the same thing was said of the slick 2011 documentary Inside Job, which I showed was nothing more than misdirection. This is another way they control the opposition: they admit all the crimes you already know, but then misdirect you into the wrong solution.”
startin to like miles mathis more and more.
thank you. time savers are appreciated.
In the gatekeeper role they’re in the intelligence loop. I’ve no doubt Buckley & Noam the Foam where “employed” in the Firing Line[TV debate show]. There are many employed in intelligence; some know it some don’t. Some think they’re on the other side; when, in fact, they’re not[they’ve been duped].
Look at Oswald. Was he groomed in a Patsy school, asleep w/many others; until he was chosen?
There are many roles in that “spy game”.
A game of absolute deception.
Your list is one; that like the banksters picking the winners in the succe$$ game; the counterpoint views get ink/distribution by either believing their own press; or, actually being schooled in key deceptive concepts/language to distribute to the masses. Framing them in ways that misdirect and misinform.
I agree w/your list, but believe that some are just being used; as their viewpoints conveniently suit the CIA’s primary agenda[s]. Some may have even fallen into the blackmail traps.
Getting mainstream distribution?
An automatic red flag in my book.
RB: Yes, those on Miles Mathis’ list may be conscious or unconscious ‘misdirectors’ (or blackmailed). I think Kerry Cassidy may have been duped a few times in the same manner.
One of my early eye-openers concerned Philip Klass, a top columnist with Aviation Week & Space Technology magazine. He was a very vocal skeptic of UFO sightings. Then, he was exposed as a CIA operative. Oops…
And I agree, “Getting mainstream distribution? An automatic red flag in my book.” Sigh…
good. thank you both. interesting about kerry cassidy. just heard her first time in last month. she’s about the only interviewer who i liked how she handled robert david steele.
anyone here listen to any of the latest out from jimmy boots rothstein in the last month?
Interesting discussion here. And it leads me to wonder why more people don’t suspect that the Deep State, which has controlled U.S. leadership and actions for the past century don’t also have a stranglehold in the Soviet Union, or at least haven’t partnered with similar factions throughout their modern history, as well. And Soviet “disclosure” also had an undesirable and avoidable consequence.
v, we do. that’s why we’re so confused. my best guess is putin is controlled opposition. for now at least he gets to play good cop.
You opportunely recalled that FOUR Russian rockets with Saturn V boosters exploded on the ground, and there were all Moon missions. While a large number of similar missile launches have been successful. Coincidence?
Nazis GLADIO operations sabotaging Russia’s moon operations?
Russians also know of the Nazi collaboration on U.S, moon operations?
[Very interesting speculation about the secret cooperation.]
Establishing moon bases and looking for technological treasures?
Meanwhile are there geo/exopolitical games played for the hearts & minds?
Remember the days when analogies were standard fare in vocabulary tests and achievement exams? Here’s my version on this topic:
LHO : J FK Assassination :: NASA : US Space Program
Relationship: Public myths masking much deeper operations over time.
I am a central Penna. farmer. Several years ago, I met a farmer from outskirts of Columbus, Ohio. He was explaining the advantages of his GPS controlled auto-steer tractor. However, he complained that when Russian air transports came in to Columbus Airport, they killed the GPS. I ask him what they were bringing. He replied wheat. Ohio produces so much wheat it is near worthless. Nobody can afford to transport wheat by air. None of this made sense to me but it didn’t seem to bother him.
1. Wright-Patterson with its strange involvement with UFO history is very nearby.
2. We farmers must generally subscribe to two GPS networks to get reliable service. The USA system and to Russia’s GLONASS system. The Russian transport would have easy access to turn that system off. Or they might be intentionally jamming both systems. Or, something they are carrying on the transport is unintentionally jamming the signals. APOTHEUM anybody???
3. Is there cooperation between the USA and Russia in space travel/defense endeavors? If so, for how long? Was the cold war faked and the new cold war fake to generate public sympathy for money being funneled to defense and then from defense into space travel/defense in both countries.
4. Is someone trying to prepare to protect mankind from the promised attack by Jesus to harvest mankind? Are we property? Are we truly sheep to the harvest? Are we living in the script of the movie “Jupiter Jones”:
Revelation 14 English Standard Version (ESV)
The Harvest of the Earth
14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and seated on the cloud one like a son of man, with a golden crown on his head, and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling with a loud voice to him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle, and reap, for the hour to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is fully ripe.” 16 So he who sat on the cloud swung his sickle across the earth, and the earth was reaped.
17 Then another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, the angel who has authority over the fire, and he called with a loud voice to the one who had the sharp sickle, “Put in your sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, for its grapes are ripe.” 19 So the angel swung his sickle across the earth and gathered the grape harvest of the earth and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden outside the city, and blood flowed from the winepress, as high as a horse’s bridle, for 1,600 stadia.[c]Revelation 14:20 About 184 miles; a stadion was about 607 feet or 185 meters
funny. i don’t feel ripe.
Hehe there IS always NAZI’s lurking in the “background” ?
The Russians are coming…
They havent gotten anything to Mars yet… and they want to throw nuclear submarines into intersteller space..
Are they sure that they know what they’re doing? https://nationalinterest.org/blog/russia-has-dead-nuclear-submarine-armed-nuclear-weapons-18227
I mean.. Shooting Dogski Cosmonotski into orbit and back doesnt quite get you past Saturn.. Ok.. I’ll admit it.. it really did look like the Grigori came up from Mars and snookered their Phobos probe into Phobos.. so.. it wasnt really their fault for not getting to Mars…but they havent been back since..
This just sounds to me like a.. we’re starting up our Space Race again. But with some Russian humour.. and vodka.. and a bear at the same time.
IF they could fake it well enough back then, imagine how much better they could fake it now that all the problems with faking it have been revealed. Like JPF, I have my doubts that “rockets” were the only technology in play with the Moon landings. The video of them launching off the Moon just doesn’t look like a rocket being fired, nor does the size of the lander look like it could contain enough fuel to do so. One would think that at one sixth gravity, it would take a launch vehicle at least one sixth the size of the Atlas to obtain orbital velocity.
If it’s a hollow, artificial satellite, maybe; but you would have had to know that before you went.
NASA definitely went to the Moon via the Apollo Program. Check out the landing site photos from India’s, China’s, and US’ recent lunar orbiters. Crystal clear. So, either the whole world is ‘in’ on the conspiracy, or it really happened. Go to the below URL, and scroll down a couple pages to view the Apollo 11-17 photos:
Plus, there are the Laser Ranging Retroreflector experiments deployed by Apollo 11, 14, and 15 on the Moon, operational to this day. Watch Mythbusters demonstrate their use:
That said, there are some who think NASA had additional ‘goals’ for some of the Apollo missions:
“A Hidden Mission for Apollo 17?” (six pages)
thehiddenmission dot com/Ahiddenmission/A17HMp1.html
And as far as “deeper coordination between the two programs,” I should think that this was a given at Joseph’s site: Ancient civilization, war of some nature, remnant population in hiding, ‘guidance’ to rebuild capabilities, etc. About the only question is how overt the coordination was…
On the last subject, the entire Space Race may have been ‘instigated’ by some hidden power to hothouse space capabilities. Think how long it would have been before a lunar landing if both sides had just concentrated on ICBMs…
I’ve put Fake Moon Landing in the same filing cabinet as Flat Earth, Reptile Overlords, “Alien” flying discs, and Dark Matter.
Ironically enough.. Hollow Moon, Nazi Uberlords, Telepathic Autistic Assassins, and Electric Universe, do hold more and more of my attention, the more and more I read…
how much of accurate info get’s diluted and sidelined by alex jones-ites pushing memes that sound similar and related but are way outside the realm of plausible? seems likely we’ve been told a whole lot that ain’t close to true an well as excluded from a lot that is – on all these subjects.
Goshawks, with all due respect, those laser ranging experiments mean nothing. Think about it – any laser fired from the Earth is going to spread widely by the time it hits the Moon, and all it’s going to do is bounce off the Moon, and we’ve been doing that since the 1940’s. Mythbusters is entertainment not science. My biggest problem with the Apollo narrative is the Lunar Excursion Model. It’s the flimsiest looking contraption I think I’ve ever seen, not up to the task of ferrying the intrepid astronauts from lunar orbit, landing on the surface, lifting off again and docking with the Command Module. Check out Michael Collins’ statements in the documentary In The Shadow Of The Moon where he describes how flimsy the LEM actually was. Besides the thickness of the “walls” being about the same as a cigarette packet, during testing they had to be careful not to drop screwdrivers as they would puncture the floor. I’m not making this up.
Tim H, with all due respect, the Laser Ranging Retroreflector experiments deployed by Apollo 11, 14, and 15 on the Moon are Real. If you had viewed the Mythbusters YouTube segment, you would have seen that the scientist operating the huge laser fired from the Earth first did a ‘reference’ firing just to bounce off the Moon. As expected, this produced a granular, spread-out return. Then, she focused on one of the Retroreflectors and fired. As expected, this produced a clear, strong return. In this episode segment, Mythbusters is entertainment with science.
On the Apollo Lunar Module, I have gotten up close and personal with an engineering copy (i.e., replica) at the National Naval Aviation Museum within Naval Air Station Pensacola. (I am an aerospace engineer, so this was seventh heaven for me.) Everything I have read about how the engineers had to lighten the LM to meet an absurdly-low weight allotment was there. No way would today’s NASA engineers have allowed the steps taken to “simplify, then add lightness” to the LM. But, in engineering terms, it was good enough. I’m not making this up.