CONCERNING THAT RUSSIAN SUBMARINE THING…
The story of that Russian submarine that was apparently deliberately scuttled by its crew - who are now being lionized in Russia by President Putin as having averted a global catastrophe - continues to get stranger and stranger. I have to admit that when the story first appeared, I had to fight the urge to blog about it immediately, because it seemed so strange. After all, within the time frame of the incident, Presidents Putin and Trump, and U.S. Vice President Pence, cancelled meetings, and we were told Mr. Putin scheduled a meeting with the Russian Defense Minister (General Shoigu), and one can only assume that the Trump-Pence cancellations were due to the same incident. The story - and the speculations - quickly grew, however, so tempted as I was to blog about it a few days ago when the story broke, I decided to wait.
What has now emerged are very few details, and a mountain of speculations, and I want to review them here, and to add my own high octane speculation to the mix. This review is by no means comprehensive, but does represent a good cross-section of the articles on the incident that everyone has been kind enough to send. A big thank you to all of you who did so.
The Planetary Catastrophe Story:
Russia's version of the story was encapsulated by this Zero Hedge article, where we're informed that the crew of the lost submarine managed to avert a planetary catastrophe:
Russian Sailors "Averted Planetary Catastrophe" During Nuclear Submarine Accident
As noted in the article, the Russian government is not saying exactly what the nature of that "planetary catastrophe" was, nor is it forthcoming about the mission the submarine was conducting. We'll get back to that.
Shortly after this, the Russian government admitted that Defense Minister Shoigu had actually traveled to the far eastern base, and confirmed that the submarine experienced a catastrophic fire. Notably, the following article lists the names of the lost crew members, most of whom, it is to be noted, were officers and indeed captains.
Then more details emerged that indicate that the submarine was perhaps nuclear powered, and that it was a "spy submarine" with several high-ranking Russian naval officers aboard, and that the submarine was on some sort of secret mission, one speculation being that it was mapping the ocean floor around the Bering Strait:
The problem with this explanation of course is the apparent absurdity of the mission. As "B." put it in an email to me, why would one send a sophisticated deep-sea spy submarine - full of high ranking naval officers no less - to conduct depth measurements which could easily have been conducted by any number of civilian vessels available to the Russians?
2. The "Internet Cable Cutting Mission" Hypothesis:
One speculation that quickly emerged in the alternative media (and even gained some minor play on the major media in radio talk shows), was that the real mission of the submarine was to cut internet cables:
Russian Sub That Caught Fire Possibly Sent to Cut Internet Cables
As the reader might have guessed, I have no difficulty with the idea that underwater internet cables have been carefully mapped by any number of nations (the usual suspects), including the Russians. That's not my difficulty here. My difficulty is the idea that the mission of the submarine was to cut them, not map them. Cutting them would be construed as hostile action, and would call forth some sort of retaliatory response from the West. And as if that's not enough, there was even
3. The "U.S.-Russian submarines in secret fire-fight" Theory:
Here the story turns murky:
First reports reaching DEBKAfile’s military sources say that a US submarine intercepted a Russian nuclear sub in American waters opposite Alaska. The Russian sub escorting the nuclear submarine responded with a Balkan 2000 torpedo and scuttled the US vessel. Urgent consultations in both the White House and the Kremlin were taking place on Tuesday night. US Vice President Mike Pence called off an appearance in New Hampshire after being recalled to Washington for a conference called by President Donald Trump without explanation.
Russian President Vladimir Putin cancelled an engagement and headed for the Kremlin to confer with Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and military chiefs, after learning that 14 submariners died in a fire that broke out on a nuclear-powered “experimental submarine in Russian waters.”
The problem here is the usual "anonymous sources" problem; we have no way of checking the assertion that some sort of firefight was involved between Russian and American vessels. However, there has been no news report of any damaged or lost U.S. naval vessels. This may or may not be significant, since in the case of an actual firefight, it is conceivable that news of it might be deliberately suppressed precisely in order to avoid dangerous escalation of the incident.
And last but not least, there is
4. The Doomsday Cobalt-Bomb Theory:
Just What Was That Stricken Russian Submarine Carrying?
The key to this speculation is that a mere submarine fire, even a breech in the reactor core, would not qualify as a "planetary catastrophe," which when those words are parsed, lead to the idea that perhaps the submarine was on a mission to plant a massive 100-200 megaton themonuclear device on the ocean floor:
Among other reports we've seen (not verified so grain of salt) is that seven of the dead were captains, meaning whatever they were up to was pretty important.
The fact the Russians are repairing and returning the boat to its mission would also point in that direction.
So what was the submarine or its submersible - capable of 20,000 foot dives - carrying?
The best guess I've seen is a high-yield, 100 - 200 megaton, cobalt thermonuclear bomb.
A bomb that size, two to four times more powerful than the biggest ever exploded, the Soviet Tsar Bomba (limited to 50 MT to allow the delivery plane a chance to escape) a bomb that size is awful enough but if it is encased in cobalt it becomes the most lethal munition ever built. (Boldface emphasis in the original)
And with that, my own high octane speculation begins. A radiological bomb such as is being described would lead to the death of the northern Pacific ocean, and perhaps over time to much of the rest of the world's oceans. But the intention of such a device - first popularized in Stanley Kubrick's dark comedy classic, Dr. Strangelove - is to create a fallout cloud which would float around the world and cause massive death from radiation poisoning. The ocean floor is obviously not the most optimal deployment for such a bomb. The explosion itself, however, could conceivably set off earthquakes in the Pacific rim if properly positioned, or create massive tsunamis and flooding of coastal areas, or both. The idea of using massive undersea explosions to do both is not new and in fact was studied by Australia, New Zealand, and the USA during World War Two as a means of softening up Japan prior to an actual boots-on-the-ground invasion of the Japanese home islands. With this speculation in mind, it's worth noting that the article itself raises the same issue in a round-about way:
More recently, June 14, 2016 The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, Volume 72, 2016 - Issue 4: Security at sea, and under it published: Would Russia’s undersea “doomsday drone” carry a cobalt bomb?
Following the November 2015 “leak” of a classified slide purporting to show a Russian nuclear-armed and nuclear-powered drone intended to create long-lasting “zones of extensive radiological contamination,” both Russian and Western observers have suggested that Moscow may be developing a cobalt bomb.
While the underwater detonation of a massive cobalt or “conventional” nuclear weapon might create zones of long-lasting contamination, Russian decision makers would have little confidence that these areas would be in the intended locations, undermining the strategic case for such attacks. These findings suggest that the Kremlin is not pursuing radiological “doomsday bombs,” even though the nuclear-powered drone on the slide seems to be a real research project. (Italicized and italicized-boldface emphasis added, boldface emphasis in the original)
In other words, forget about the cobalt; if the goal was to deploy a massive thermonuclear device on the ocean floor, the probable aim is to create instabilities in the earthquake-prone region, and floods.
Under such a scenario, it is perhaps possible that there may have been an attempt by American submarines to prevent that deployment. But again, if so, then there is no corroboration, as no losses of U.S. naval personnel or vessels, or of damaged U.S. naval vessels, have been reported. All we have by way of "corroboration" is the suspicious cancellation of appearances by Vice President Pence to attend a meeting called by President Trump. There's little doubt in my mind that these meetings are directly related to the Russian submarine incident; but mere meetings do not corroborate the "firefight" scenario.
It is intriguing to note that the sudden spate of earthquakes in California was more or less coincidental in time to the submarine incident, and some of those earthquakes have reportedly hit the secret military facilities at China Lake.
So one wonders if, in fact, the two stories are related in some fashion, and - if the "firefight" scenario be true - whether some other actor may be on the stage, trying to "start something" between Russia and the U.S.
But there is one telltale indicator that this incident was much more important and significant than meets the eye, and that there are aspects of this story that are being deliberately withheld from the public, and that telltale indicator is the almost complete and total silence on the US side of things about what was discussed at those meetings called by Mr. Trump. Russia, at least, told us that an unspecified "planetary catastrophe" had been averted, and that the submarine was on a secret mission of some sort.
The U.S.A. is not talking about it at all.
This is one of those stories to "file away" and remember, because I strongly suspect in years to come, odd details will emerge that may cast some light on the incident.
See you on the flip side...
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It would be interesting to hear what the Japanese have to say about this.
Those folk do have a rep for speaking plain truths at the most amazing moments. Somehow I think we are going to hear about an American vessel dissappearing in a completely unrelated event sometime in the next few months (completely uncorroboratable narratives too) before we hear a truth uttered out of the far east. And it’s too easy to imagine an earthquake and/or tsunami near Tokyo to punctuate the statement that comes out of Japan.
Guess I had not realized Abe was so tall. Nor that Putin had that sense of humor.
I don’t think we will hear anything about this from the Japanese. Last time they got feisty and started speaking/acting for themselves, they had a nuke-induced plate-shift & tsunami which covered-up the StuxNet – ing of Fukushima Reactors 1-4 and (real) nuking of Reactors 3 & 4. (Reactor 4 was closed-down for repairs & upgrading, with the containment lid off, and did not even have fuel rods in it. But, it massively exploded.) Get up to speed here:
You’re up early. And good at pulling them details together fast. Wonder how easy that’s going to be as we roll down that singularity highway of blockchained, social scored, cloudsourced, wiki-authoritatively-vetted interconnectivity.
I gotta get a job where I work in such areas that I learn to keep such systems up. Did you get a chance to watch Trump’s speechifying today where he’s gonna make all the big censors in tech let everyone on the internet say what they want to say? So reassuring. And then Acosta resigned.
Why do I get the feeling that the firefight was a humans vs non-humans ? Perhaps a team at work: USA/Russia Vs a non-human entity.
Perhaps the Russian captains were summoned there to discuss matters with *them* but all the while the plan was to nuke them.
Don’t forget the high profile summons to Antarctica in the past, and Buzz Aldrin’s statement “We are all in danger. It is evil itself”
Yes, indeed, it is quite warm in the Alaskan Arctic these days. Persistently, so, too.
My take on this is someone attacked a Russian spy sub investigating secret military under sea spy communications and if everyone on the sub had died and Russia lost the sub then it would have been the start of WWIII. Its a warning not to try them this way again.
I don’t know how this would tie in, but I just found the first movie to depict a flying saucer called, wait for it, The Flying Saucer (1950). While completely boring and not worth watching it was completely unique in that the saucer was made by a man in Alaska trying to sell it to an air plane manufacturer, but there were possible “communist” spies who also wanted to buy it. I say possible because I don’t remember them specifically saying “communists” just Russians.
Also, in National Geographic they would tend to print old photos on the back page with a caption of its context. In a old issue they printed a picture of a plane crash in Alaska with the short story that the last official deaths of World War 2 were two pilots who for unspecified reasons crashed in Alaska in the year 1952. Why they were the last official deaths of a war that we’ve been told ended in 1945 I have no idea, I’ve just kept it in my mind and never looked any further into it.
It could be a purge, Russian style.
Under president Obama, MANY officers were a) forced out or b) passed up for promotion. This was a way of installing THEIR guys in key positions. This is also why West Point grads and other indoctrinated stooges rise to power. When I wen’t to Ranger School, those West Point cadets were pretty much pencil whipped through the course. There are also countless examples of US missions, where teams were wiped out as if the enemy knew we were coming. Some operators that were involved in Neptune Spear come to mind (see: Extortion 17).
Maybe this is tying up loose ends? Maybe they had gone rogue? Maybe they were the Flynn’s (good guys) and were put down to make room for a select crop of cronies.
A tragedy sure is a tidy way to wipe out 7 individuals and maybe even some hardware/payload w/out raising to many eyebrows.
Along those lines…. do we have evidence the dead were on a submarine? I was in the navy for 10 years and never saw seven 0-6s on a ship or submarine.
@eliot I was on 2 submarines in the 70’s, the “Skipper” was only an O-5, also never saw that many O-6’s, not even while on an aircraft carrier in the early 80’s.
I had thought of this too. Putin addressed this as a “research” vessel. Perhaps that translates to, “training vessel?” Maybe they were all down there on a training mission to test some sort of new tech, hardware or procedure? I was never in the Navy, but I know when the Army gets a new toy, the brass tend to see it in action first. Perhaps these officers were being brought up to speed on something new and charged with developing the SOP’s, and training material for the rest of the fleet?
That comment was for you too @eliot
This whole scenario is intriguing…. who is attacking whom? One of the dead received a very high bravery award (medal of honor equivalent?) For bravery in artic research. WTF? Could be that this group had high ranks because they had been dealing with (them) for a long time and thus the “group” had received promotions over time. Very ominous….
I can totally see this. At one time, I was employed by huge mega corp that forced Westpoints onto our highly talented civilian teams. They came in at 30% more pay, they had zero applicable skills and we were forced to hold them up as well as clean up after them as they stumbled and bubbled their way through budgets, resources, clients, etc.. Needless to say it created incredibly internal issues between the teams. These stooges were also handed cushy high paying jobs at the end of their rotations after doing absolutely nothing. They were primed to say “Yes Sir,” and be figure heads while the true talent doing all the work were paid like serfs and had to work night and day to prevent them from destroying the organization. Some of us found very creative ways to usurp them while doing the necessary things to keep the ship afloat…no easy accomplishments and makes for the creation of a highly skilled shadow operative organization in the corporate world just to ensure the right things get done, while exposing the idiots for what they are. It take constant minding, is exhausting and you always have to sleep with one eye open while planning your next move.
Any and all of these narratives jumped to mind first for me. Besides that one would never want all those individuals together, let alone on board a vessel, let alone on board a sub, one would never want to publish their identities, let alone that fast, let alone that detailed. If Putin published their names, he wanted everyone, probably especially the rest of his military, to know they were purged.
While this is propaganda as much as anything we see, it does give some clues as to who we are considering – or at least the type of people they are all associating with.
How I figured out the Achilles heel of Vladimir Putin | William Browder | TEDxBerlin
I love that that came from a Communist Capitalist who was making the world a better place by taking all Russia’s assets for free and selling them to better people. And the crowd cheered him. How often does TED talks use canned laugh tracks?
The earthquakes in California were curiously both nearly colocated under China Lake which is not just a military research facility, but a US Navy testing and research facility. Perhaps we are looking at a game of high stakes brinksmanship between two great naval powers.
The China Lake earthquake had no S waves and indicates a large underground explosion of some kind. It could be nuclear but one thing is for sure, it was not natural.
Or could “it” be as simple as … US + USSR going after 1 of the nazi international’s ….nests ? & is “it” is getting very very very close ta …spillin out ta the puuuuuuuuublic ?
Consider the highest rank involved. It was Russian Navy 1st Captain, and there were allegedly seven of them.
This is the highest rank before Commodore / Admiral ranks (at least in Western navies). You typically wouldn’t get to 1st Captain unless the Navy thought you had a chance for further promotion, IMO–why waste the promotion on someone who’d be at Peter’s Principle? These were absolutely top-notch guys.
This suggests one of two general possibilities to me:
1. This was an undersea DIPLOMATIC sort of mission to either ‘others’ or a breakaway civilization base / craft that went wrong. Extreme pressure depths make this unlikely, but not completely outside the realm of possibility (e.g., Tom Bearden’s site discusses interferometry force fields, I believe).
2. If you had some sort of DOOMSDAY weapon on board or some sort of super-classified tech (torsion weapon system?) on board, just like launching ICBMs from the silo, you’d want failsafes build-in. This would be done via requiring multiple individuals to complete their part in activating / using / launching. If this was super-classified and super-dangerous (‘planetary’), it might make sense that you’d want to give this to highly trusted, proven, exceptional individuals (i.e., 7x 1st Captains).
I’m sure there are other likely scenarios; just that these two came to mind given the ranks.
With all the strange VIP visits to Antarctica and other curious events there in recent years, thought it was of interest that, according to The Sun article you linked above, one of the fallen submariners “was part of a military unit based near St Petersburg and was awarded the Hero of Russia, the country’s highest honour, six years ago for “Arctic and Antarctic research works”.
Post as I read…
Cover story #1
Spy, research, etc., etc.
Cover story #2
Now others join in the cover-up
Stories will now be coming in from multiple universes.
Cover Story #3
First probable story.
Still a cover, but getting warm.
One of Goshawk’s ideas made me think there was a rogue Russian plot afoot; it was discovered, and subsequently the high-ranking officers were suicided.
Somewhere in all these scenarios being discussed
is there a thread towards the truth?
Still well and mix
Goshawks, thank you for following this story–and for being rather patient in your analysis. At some level I believe you may be right in that the Russian sub incident and the China Lake incident(s) are related, but I hesitate to say anything above and beyond the data presented. There is one scenario I’ve not seen proposed. It may be a long-shot–but it can explain some of the high-level facts as we know them. Has anyone suggested this might have been a joint US/Russian exercise to dispose of a common threat with Russia taking the lead because it’s the best military resource in the area and time was of the essence? Perhaps this option should be cast on the table for consideration. If China Lake is related this could be blow-back from the original aggressor against the US for not taking an aggressive role in stopping the Russian intervention. The most horrific version of this story is: the third party behind the event may very well have been of American origin or be an American ally. One always points to Israel–but don’t we know others who have a bigger vested interest in starting a new war? All national socialists weren’t necessarily of German descent and assisted them during WWII.
Though I offer the scenario I’m not committed to it. We suffer from the lack of data. The oddities surrounding these events are so breath-taking they deserve a very careful, cautious response. This has a 9-1-1 context to me–and I’m not willing to engage in very much speculation until there is more data.
Wholeheartedly agree, OrigensChild. The enormity of the implications give extreme pause to typical proximity in time speculation. Find myself sort of hoping these events are unrelated.
Now that’s real good!
I like the deep joint operation idea.
Adds up on several planes of thought; including high penetration of operations on both sides by the Nazi International[my take].
American origin coincides w/the high-ranking rogue Russian officers being co-opted, then discovered.
Both superb scenarios in my minds eye view.
That’s ALSO a possible scenario… thanks for posting!
That narrative has legs. Perhaps lots of legs. Somehow, my imagination goes to other stories we’re watching bits and pieces of at the same time. Stories that our biggest surprise is that we ever found out any of the details. Can someone please explain to any level of satisfaction why we found so much of what we found out about Jimmy Saville? The Bronfman’s? Franklin Coverup? And now Jeffrey Epstein? Even if these stories indicate some version of draining swamps, I still want to understand why and how such small creatures as us are being briefed at all let alone in this much detail. Especially if the swamp is being drained and cleaned by such folk as what we’re seeing apparently doing the cleaning.
I doubt that this was a joint US/Russian exercise/operation. If it were, it would have required planning and co-ordination. The Situation Rooms in WH and Kremlin would have been operational and fully staffed; so there would have been no need for sudden changes of schedule and urgent meetings at the highest levels, even if there were unexpected blow-back of some sort somewhere. If there were a joint operation to avert a planetary catastrophe, the entire chain of command would have been “on deck,” and all eyes would have been glued to the screens/comms. It would not surprise me if there were a joint US/Russian response to whatever was going to cause the planetary catastrophe; but it seems to me that both sides were initially caught by surprise.
Ahh, glad to see Joseph is putting-up a column on this ‘event’, whatever it actually was…
I wrote a long series of comments on this ‘event’, starting with this one, in case people want to see how it evolved with time:
Additionally, the Debka site has been overwhelmingly revealed to be a Mossad front. Take anything posted there with an Earth-sized grain of salt. And, consider background motives. That is why I posted nothing concerning their blather…
Furthermore, the wave of top-level meetings (particularly military) around the globe guarantees that this was not just a simple battery fire aboard a tiny submersible (which did have a tiny nuclear reactor for propulsion; no missiles or torpedoes). Something serious happened, and we are not being told what it was. It may not have even concerned that mini-sub; the mini-sub ‘drama’ might be part of the cover story.
If the mini-sub was actually in the picture, it would not have been splicing-into deep sea-bottom (abyssal plain), fiber-optic cables. Pressures are just too great. This would be done on a continental shelf, where you don’t actually need this deep-diving mini-sub. And cutting them would be an act of war…
However, the mini-sub might have been laying sizeable conventional-explosive charges or tactical-nuke charges on/over/beside those cables, in order to disrupt communications if necessary. As others have noted, the US military has become dependent on telecommunications. That is both a strength and a weakness. Taking-out communication cables and communication/positioning satellites may be strategic goals, if things get serious…
Also, the “cobalt bomb” story being pushed seems to me like classic misdirection. (And stupid anyway to detonate it deep underwater.) I prefer the KISS concept when sorting-out what really happened. Whatever it was, it scared a lot of top-level people…
Oh, and I wrote a few comments on the CA earthquakes beneath China Lake Naval Air Warfare Center here:
Thank you, goshawks-found your posts regarding this ‘event’ on the edgykayshun post last night. Had no doubt Gizars were burning midnight oil on this one, the implications are beyond huge. The remarks from Putin, however laconic, are concerning enough to warrant our highest scrutiny, and was pleased to see you did not wait for Dr. JF’s imminent post to direct our attention. If the info is true about the Russian naval officers and other crew sacrificing themselves to avert ‘planetary catastrophe’, I’d like to suggest we salute and honor them as heroes of humanity. We will never know how often disaster was averted in human history by the boundless courage of those who serve with dignity. Also last night, was listening to the Jan. 11/19 vidchat, wherein Dr. JF brought up the 2003 movie ‘The Core” in response to a question, which has an eerily similar scenario where ultimate sacrifice is required far below the surface to save the planet.
Cui bono. World wars start with a single shot.
An oil tanker here, and a submarine there.
Generally, joint venture is breach of military protocol, and slippery slope to Manchurian candidate.
What about a large megatonne nuke salted with Red Mercury? That’s a big firecracker!
Makes one wonder if the Kursk disaster was a prelude in some way. Of note, RT has just published an article about very serious radiation leaking from a sunk Russian sub: https://www.rt.com/news/463745-radiation-leak-komsomolets-submarine-norway/
Maybe the Russians and the Americans were trying to blow something else (or someone) up and things didn’t go according to plan?
While we are talking about toxic subs, a Nazi one with 65 tonnes of ‘mercury’ is leaking: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1077213/Nazi-Norway-submarine-toxic-mercury-u-boat-NRK-fredje-World-War-2-Royal-Navy