…YES, BUT WHO IS BEING TELEPORTED?
You may remember the late 1950s science fiction movie The Fly with David Hedison and Vincent Price, or its 1986 remake with Jeff Goldblum and Geena Davis. In both movies, a scientist is trying to revolutionize transportation systems by creating teleportation, and decides to test the device on himself, attempting to teleport himself from one place to another. The experiment succeeds... to a point, because unbeknownst to the scientist (Hedison in the original movie, Goldblum in the remake) a common house fly managed to enter the teleportation device and to be "scanned" in the initial computer scan. When he is "molecularly reassmbled" at the end of the process, needless to say some of the fly has been "interpreted" by the computer as belonging to his original body, and thus, he is reassembled as part human, part fly, and from there the plot proceeds with predictable Hollywood scripting: both scientists increasingly become more and more fly-like and less and less human. In Goldblum's case, it's a crazing for nothing but sweets, which he consumes "like a fly." I'll just leave it at that, because if one hadn't seen the film, I don't want to ruin those rather grotesque and repelling scenes.
And of course, one need go no further than the original science fiction television series Star Trek to discover that teleportation systems played a basic technological role in the series, with the occasional episode even raising the metaphysical question (usually from the character of ship's doctor, McCoy, played by DeForest Kelley).
I mention all of this because there is a metaphysical problem lurking at the very heart of this dreamed-of technology, a problem I mentioned in last Monday's blog, The Resurrection Gambit. The question is addressed openly and explicitly in this article shared by M.D.:
Scientists Want to Teleport a Whole Human. A Quantum Breakthrough Could Make It Reality.
Now note what the article speculates, because it is at the core of today's high octane speculations and questions. The speculation begins with the article's own sub-headline, because, as it notes, there's a "catch" to teleporting a human being:
There’s just one catch: every atom in your body would be fully disassembled to the quantum level, effectively leaving your original body totally destroyed.
But assuming that the process could be done, what happens when one is "reassembled" at the other end? Of course, one answer might be that the body dies in the process (by the way, for reasons of quantum entanglement and non-locality, I don't think the body does die in such a process). But assuming it does not die, then what about those "metaphysical" questions? Here is where the article raises all those old questions that used to be raised on the old Star Trek series:
Like flying cars and time travel, this ability to instantly move something across physical space is deeply compelling—even if it seems impossible. But scientists are convinced that a breakthrough in quantum computing technology could make teleportation a reality.
So far, the most advanced teleportation experiments have relied on photons, but as recently as 2020, scientists discovered it might be possible to teleport electrons, instead, which can maintain their quantum states for longer periods of time.
So will the transport of more complex matter be next? If we can move light particles and electrons from Point A to Point B instantaneously, could we teleport whole atoms, molecules, living cells, and eventually some brave human test subject? And perhaps more importantly, even if we could find a way to teleport whole humans . . . should we?
After all, there’s no promise that all of the particles inside your body, once reassembled at its destination, will add up to one fully intact, fundamentally unchanged you. (Emphasis in the original)
Note firstly that in order to "scan" an entire body and reassemble it, a vast and "quantum leap" in computing power would be required, one most likely involving quantum computing or some as yet unknown derivative thereof. It is a necessity simply because of the sheer amount of data that would have to be calculated.
And here we encounter the first difficulty. In Monday's blog, The Resurrection Gambit, I noted that the problem with "de-extinction" of a human individual might, or might not, bring back the person concerned. On the view of the equation so common to public thought - the equation that soul, including all its bodily individuation, equals person -teleportation of the body would "reassemble" the person at the other end. In other words, the underlying assumption is one of the identity of the two things - in this case individuated body with all its faculties, and the person - and the underlying metaphysical assumption is materialism. But here we already encounter a difficulty, and the difficulty is one which aficionados of analogue musical recordings (a vinyl record) and digital recordings (a CD) know all too well: that digital version of of your favorite Bach or Beatles tune is a digital approximation of the actual analogue sound; the analogue recording is much more faithful, because it picks up all the subtle nuances of the original recording in the studio or wherever; it picks up the ambiance or environment and hence the subtlety of the music much better. Indeed, when one graphs the sounds on a digital versus an analogue recording, one immediately sees the difference that is making those subtle differences in sound: the digital waves are all formed from rectilinear, boxy components, whereas the analogue waves are smooth and curvy (depending on the instruments and voices).
And this highlights the first difficulty, for if what is teleported is teleported digitally, then what emerges a the end of the teleportation process is at best an approximate "recording" of the original. Over time, and several such teleportations (copies), the copy will be considerably degraded from the original, conceivably to such an extent that it is different than the original. Under the individual = person equation, then this means the original person has disappeared as a result of the process, which was precisely Dr. McCoy's whole philosophical problem with transporters in the original Star Trek.
The problem, however, does not disappear on the other view that individual and person are not identical nor interchangeable, even though it might represent a more stable basis on which to "teleport". On this view, I suspect, there is some "threshold of transduction" after which the link between the original individual and person are severed. On the view that the individual "transduces" the person, and thus that they are not identical, but that they do, to an extent, overlap, then several such teleportations might so degrade the ability of the individual to transduce the person that the link is severed, or indeed, that an entirely different entity is able to invade the degraded copy and either shove aside the original person, or "co-occupy" the individual. such "co-occupancy" cases abound in psychological and traditional literature (where they are called, respectively, schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder, and possession).
The bottom line here is that, while it may appear that scientific and technological advances are taking our civilizations far from its classical Greco-Roman, or Christian, or Hindu or Buddhist, roots, the reality is that the technologies and the science behind them are posing those questions as never before, and that the drive to do the science while ignoring the questions those civilizations asked, and the answers - and dire warnings and cautions - that they gave in answer to them, is a recipe for disaster.... a kind of Hollywood movie combination of The Fly and Jurrasic Park all rolled into one...
... See you on the flip side...
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In one’s view, some of this talk sounds akin to Therianthropy, with a mixture of gene code, and the expectation of transiting great distances intact as the corporeal Being one left a geographical position arriving at another while not transforming into a bat or dog or something unexpected.
Therianthropy, that mythological ability of human beings to metamorphose into animals in the past by means of shapeshifting, is hypothesized as one consideration of why there is depicted part animal type form and part human art forms of dated artifacts of the distant past. Whether this business of high-tech teleportation would lead to [The Fly] or [Werewolf] transformation on a full Moon or [Centaur] like manifestation after accidental use in error is another matter. Could be where some of this talk of teleportation got started after some form of it, witnessed in the distant past, got transferred to stone or cave paintings or rolled parchment.
It would seem that that process of teleportation talked about today would need work and experience with actual spatial and temporal translation techniques to navigate that which IS while maintaining form integrity of an upright simian type. That would also suggest needing to know something about maintaining an integral portion of that which one IS amidst the rest which IS. Just the simple walking and moving through the air causes a slight disturbance of air molecules sending them into motion after contact no matter their invisibility.
There is this kind of talk floated about where and when UFO’s/UAP’s are discussed. Brainstorming how unconventional craft seem able to maneuver beyond conventional terrestrial craft that seems to suggest that those craft navigate space / time they are apparent also suggesting that the Beings piloting them must also follow along.
Particalization is soon the talk around the corner of discussion as it seems that any entanglement must negotiate particles and wave forms (as current physics suggests that each are) to maintain integrity of the form that is transiting that which IS.
In some ways, it is strange how some of this talk trends toward the world of spirit forms and their [bi-location] of presence. There is, after all, a great deal of space between the parts of matter (also hypothesized & theorized) of the corporeal Being.
Attempting any macgyvered means of teleportation would seem to require a biological and mechanical background that engineers could use to build a useful contraption that does the heavy [shifting] of matter into energy then into matter again as if starting at the beginning of the transfer yet arriving at another location. It seems that one has to do more than just hover in place and then drop down into place at another geographic location.
Should be interesting what the lexicon will sound like (if its sonorous) in how those scientists explain a demonstratable and physical proof this business of presumptive teleportation must also have.
I have slept on Joseph’s posting before commenting, as it is such a very deep and complex subject.
There were two episodes of the X-Files (Lazarus and Roland) that addressed whether the human spirit / soul (person) can ‘take over and inhabit’ a solid material form (body) of someone else (a different individual).
I agree with Socrates that the psyche can exist without the mortal body.
But scientists demand proof.
Empirical evidence includes near death experiences, out of body experiences and heart transplant patients (receivers of a donor’s heart).
The essence of the conundrum the scientists face is whether the body is something which can be borrowed, swapped, controlled or manipulated by someone other that its original owner. Much of our gothic and horror fiction from the last 200 years revolves around this fundamental theme. However, I am not going to comment on whether this ‘possession’ is good or bad as (excuse the pun) this has already been done to death in films and literature!
I know that the mind is capable of extreme and fantastical imagination (but would add that I have never used hallucinogens).
However, the scientists have an answer to ‘possessions’ – the psychosis conditions including schizophrenia, multiple personality disorder and dissociated personality. But and, most importantly, they are still unable to answer how can the new skills and knowledge have been instantly acquired by the person? (eg a new language, different voice, memories of being a member of a different family, ability to read music / play musical instrument, expert at chess, expert at ballroom dancing etc).
In the field of parapsychology there is some emprical and hard evidence for the transfer of information and data between minds. Joseph has written widely on this subject and we know the military and defence authorities take the subject extremely seriously. Indeed, the CIA has conducted several top secret research ESP research projects and ‘remote viewings’. So we know it is proven but classified Top Secret.
The crux is can we contact the dead / does the soul survive death? – I have, to date, not come across any literature on any research programmes conducted by the military and defence authorites nor any research by scientific establishments into this subject.
Lastly, there are well documentated cases of ‘possessed’ computers. Where messages appear on the computer from, for example, a person who has been dead for hundreds of years! Since computers are not yet sentinent (I think, therefore I am – Cogito, ergo sum), the messages cannot be blamed by the scientists on the computer having a pyschosis condition! Hurrah!; nor can ESP or remote viewing be used as an explanation!
This brings me neatly back to previous communications I had with Joseph and Gizars about transducing. The books and TV series (produced by the BBC / HBO) – His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5607976/
In the story, Mary Malone an astrophysicist and neuropsychologist was investigating how dark matter affects human consciousness by using a hi- tech super computer called the Cave to act as a transducer to communicate with Shadow Particles (dark matter).
https://hisdarkmaterials.fandom.com/wiki/Cave
I HAVE SEEN BOTH FILM VERSIONS OF THE FLY AND HAVE READ THE ORIGINAL SHORT STORY ON WHICH THEY WERE BASED. INTERESTINGLY, SCIENCE FICTION FANTASY WRITERS ARE MORE PRESIDENT ABOUT TECHNOLOGY PROBLEMS THAN SCIENTIFIC AND ACADEMIC COMMUNITIES.
This posting reminds me of some of the posts from many years ago on this site when discussions about the soul were not uncommon. The TV series Babylon 5, S01:E02 titled – ‘Soul Hunter’, had as its theme about an alien being who collected dying souls was brought aboard the station. The series explored many topics relating to how Earthlings and Alien species interacted. Constant themes throughout the series episodes revolved around the constant conflicts, wars, and other dastardly deeds.
In my opinion all of God’s creatures have a body, soul, and spirit.
For what it’s worth, I, for one, am very skeptical of quantum teleportation as a means for living beings to travel great distances throughout space, the nature and structure of which, arguably, still elude the currently accepted scientific paradigm.
For one thing the implied necessity that a receiver to be simultaneously present at the other end [tuned, synchronized (in time and in space) and in phase with oodles of compute power control and energy] is a fundamental and severely constraining requirement.
Personally, I think the ability to control and manipulate space, space folds and space “voids/holes” by one’s intent and consciousness, as Padre Pio,Tibetan monks and countless mystics and adepts have supposedly demonstrated, is more realistic and more attainable to Mankind, (Assuming Homo Sapiens Sapiens as a fully integrated complex of Consciousness/Spirit/Soul/Mind and Biology) …
We ALWAYS assume that when “they” R “releasing” “these” “articles” they R the “latest” ? ….how about ALL the trillions & trillions & trillions &&&& & & $$$$$$$$ ‘s “they” STOLEN since the Civil War. ( think that flying “airship’s” that ole honest Abe had no “interest” IN ? ) ……..you’d think the technology tree …..would be WELL past Telly-port’s ? Humm lol how long has ole Star Trek …. been 🤔🤫🤐 Jeez how ‘bout the flip phone & flat screen 📺 & ole doc McCoy’s Majic healing wand ? & nobody ever talks about just talking out loud ta the computer 💻 ALL over the ship ? Jeez how long hav “they” been play’n ’ round wit that 🔔 ? folks “they” R what how FAR ahead of us ? 2024 -1860’s …164 yrs “they” R now just gettin ‘round ta telly’n people ? ….umm pretty sher that an couple “miss’n” people have been shuffled off “somewhere” ,ain’t that right “Mr.Scott” 🙃
I’m wondering if your use of the term ‘individual’ here is equivalent to ‘consciousness’. Because that has always seemed like the problem with teleportation. Reassembling inert matter seems like a possibility – like the replicators on Star Trek that can create food and other objects out of base molecules. But how to get the consciousness to follow to the location of teleportation and stick to the ‘new’ body seems to be the real trick, and as you suggested, who knows what consciousness will animate the new body. However, we ourselves replace all of the cells in our body over time (seven years is often given) so perhaps it could be done instantaneously and over a distance.
It never ends; man’s hubris.
Two plus two equals: to leave no stone unturned.
In others words; give man an iota of intelligence, and he thinks he’s God incarnate.
At least; enough for an elitist cannon fodder, for unlimited experimentation purposes.
As common, as…?
Houseflies – if you will.- which seems to fit that bill of lading, like…?
Schrodinger’s cat.
In other words; if your looking for a binary yes or no; your in the wrong universe.
Certainty; certain, is not certain.
From point A, to point B; has infinite possibilities.
[back to the post]
Then there’s the vast unknown and known higher-dimensions?
Wherefore art thou?
Weren’t you beamed-up?
Or, was that down?
Or, was it – to another dimension?
And here; everything seems to be coalescing into Bush the Elder’s…
substantial equivalence.
So, the Beam-Me-Up/Down versions; are going to be digital facsimiles, at best?
So, whoever is beamed; will become, a ding-dong-digital, binary-thoughtful idiot?
The movie title that also comes to mind;
when thinking of the 20th-Worst Century “science” is:
It’s a Mad, Mad, Mad World.
Whose sequel may well be entitled:
It’s A Mad, Mad, Mad Scientist’s World – AKA – The 21st Century.
Looks like humanity or at least their scientific part is right now infatuated with a word Quantum.
Quantum, particles, computing, universe and such. So, I have question, where in this whole thing fits so called “observer effect”?
Who will be an observer in the quantum teleportation scheme. Computer, person that designed algorithms of teleportation, God, or the enemies of God.?
I had a friend give me a copy of a record album many years ago. She had played the record I liked on a stereo record player and used her portable boom box to record it . It was of such low audio quality I could hardly bear to listen but I thanked her profusely for her kind efforts. I have been a musician since grade school and the sounds that were missing from the poor audio copy just was a torture to my ears. I prefer old analog records to any digitally recorded crap and I’m still quite fussy like that . I hate most CD recordings for the same reason. Nothing sounds as good as an acoustic guitar or violin heard live when compared to a recording of the same instrument digitally.
A digital human replacement will lack in like fashion and never will be 100% correct for its duplication flaws plus most humans have an irreplaceable connection to a human soul that cyborgs will never have.
And in regard to your “Resurrection Gambit” – what an opportunity to insert another being into the body that appears to be the former you? Scientists don’t know what a human being is, this thing inhabiting a physical body and considers itself a person. Physical body and person are not identical or equivalent. But scientists want to play catch, essentially, by tossing a person from one location to another, but the Humpty Dumpty who lands in the Catcher’s mitt may be a poor thing compared to the Humpty who left the pitcher’s hand. The living human body is a whirling universe, in motion, and all that motion is going to be accurately imparted to this analog-cum-digital body? Who will monitor these trials? When Big Pharma does its FDA trials, test subjects with unwanted reactions are often “removed” from the testing data so as not to interfere with approval of a product when there is big money to be made. Cutting corners on safety measures is also a frequent ploy of business big and small because safety measures interfere with profitability, and making money is king. And there’s an old saying – “close enough for government work.” So let’s not disassemble people digitally. Let’s focus on opening wormholes between the manufacturer in China and the Walmart distribution center in California, or between the Oval Office and Lucifer’s frozen pit in Hell.
When Odysseus returns, to Ithaca, he confronts the copycats, and shoots an arrow, through twelve axe heads, which means travelling, through a yearly cycle.
Odin, who hangs on a tree, falls, to rise again, which is how eternity manifests, inside the spatiotemporal realm, as a reverberation, to and fro: from seed to plant, to seed again.
Likewise Harry Potter travels, through the tides of day, by closing the circle of horcruxes – in the ‘eternal return’ – while confronting his own shadow, across the sundial.
Essence takes shape, in multitude of epistemic frameworks, simultaneously, across time and space – which is the 7th seal broken, in the runic Grail quest.
THROUGH SUNDIAL ACROSS [π]
Flaming arrow of flying spark,
seeks out sundial mark,
on the other side
at yuletide,
halfway out of the dark.
Harry Potter fell, died, and rose, like a Scythian Odin/Adon.
A FOURTH letter from Harry Potter:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/scl/fi/vdnam1nfy3knd9u9mzhvr/fourth-letter-from-harry-potter.pdf?rlkey=7pnhsa7lxdklpz7t8xbu24w8j
SEVENTH SEAL
When Pendragon wild, not tame,
born of shadow and flame,
killed off every fear
crystal clear,
he went before he came.
When Pendragon was not there,
he became fire everywhere,
within dream awoken
in action taken,
throughout angelic sphere.
When Pendragon did not yield,
in final stand by shield,
he rose victorious
and hilarious,
laughing in empty field.