My friends at Red Ice Creations radio recently interviewed Richard Dolan, a Ufologist and ET proponent whose research I have a great deal of respect for. The interview is here:

Richard Dolan on the Breakaway Civilization on Red Ice Creations

I find Dolan's reasoning compelling, namely, that the very size of classified black budgets, coupled with the prolonged period or their existence and utilization to carry out exotic research, has given rise to a "breakaway" civilization of people with access to exotic technologies, and even to a group of people with a vastly different world view.

This view is essentially the same as the view I have been arguing with respect to the postwar Nazi International and their presumed continuance of exotic research in a variety of host countries. Dolan's particular perspective is that a similiar occurrence happened in the USA after World War Two and beginning in earnest in the 1950s. Like me, Dolan believes that the amount of time, money, and manpower devoted to such research could very conceivably have led to that breakaway civilization establishing more or less a permanent presence in outer space.

This raises a disturbing possibility that others and I have broached on various interviews, namely, that there may be more than one such breakaway civilization. If Dolan is right, there is one that we may call, for want of a better term, the Anglo-American Intelligence-Military complex. And if I am right, there is at least one other that we may call the Nazi or Fascist International. Assuming both to be in more or less continual existence, and even assuming some sort of detente once existed between them, then it is possible these two (and possibly more) groups are already in covert conflict in space.

The concept of a breakaway civilization as Dolan has outlined the case here is a fascinating one, and deserves the kind of thought and detailed analysis he brings to it.


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Joseph P. Farrell

Joseph P. Farrell has a doctorate in patristics from the University of Oxford, and pursues research in physics, alternative history and science, and "strange stuff". His book The Giza DeathStar, for which the Giza Community is named, was published in the spring of 2002, and was his first venture into "alternative history and science".


  1. Christine on April 12, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Remember that hacker who got into US classified files, and found
    reference to offworld officers? unfortunately he was too bombed on
    weed while doing it to copy or capture the file.

  2. Christian de Coninck Lucas on April 9, 2011 at 7:18 am

    Very interesting, Dr. Farrell…I’m sure Richard will appreciate it. You guys should have a chat!

  3. MizGreen on April 8, 2011 at 7:42 am

    Great interview with Rich Dolan, he seems quite on the same page as Dr Farrell (ufo’s notwithstanding :)). His details on the black ops funding are staggering. I had never realized the massive amount the drug trade was contributing to these deep black ops, although I think one of the main reasons (if not THE main reason) for the Vietnam war was U.S. control of the opium business. ( When I think of the young guys of my generation who died horribly in that place — if the massively profitable opium business was the true reason, it’s so devastating I can hardly bear it.)

    Dr. Farrell suggests possibly more than one breakaway civilization, say the Anglo-American Intelligence-Military complex and then possibly a Nazi or Fascist International? It seems the Anglo-American would be way out ahead in funding. I can’t get over how openly we handed over an obscene amount from our US Treasury to the banking industry in 2008 — for what? — how blatant was that! But perhaps that amount that seems so huge to me was actually fairly moderate by these people’s standards, both here and in Europe.

    Tim, thanks for the info on Alternative 3, that looks very informative. I had never heard of it but it looks like it’s well worth checking out. (The only British “sci-fi” I’m familiar with is Red Dwarf, which is another story altogether….;))

    • Tim on April 8, 2011 at 9:47 pm

      You’re welcome. The conspiracy around Alternative 3 is even better than the actual story. Even the author, Leslie Watkins, claims that he now thinks he inadvertently got too close to a hidden truth. Do a search and Alternative 3 in Google – the whole concept has taken on a life of its own.

  4. Tim on April 7, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    I’m assuming everyone here has heard of Alternative 3?

    Just in case:

    • Christine on April 8, 2011 at 12:31 am

      YES! here is what is really interesting, that though it was deliberately
      slung together as an April Fools Day joke, the writers of the movie
      suddenly found all sorts of strange trouble as if they had stumbled on
      something real, come too close to something someone wanted hidden.

      The book Alternative 3 was written later based on the movie.

      The astronaut interviewed never existed. But the movie clip of the Mars
      landing just might be the real thing. has a thread,
      and a video with voice over, where that landing is analyzed. The point is
      made, that as the vehicle’s window view moves, as if rotating a bit, at each
      motion there is a static disturbance in the film, as if some energy active
      (or active enough to do such interference) only during such a rotation
      were to blame. that I never thought about. but the scratchy quality, one
      could dismiss as just film quality, seems only to operate when the vehicle
      rotates a bit to change its view.

      I know that film clip has to be real, because on the screen that shows
      environmental conditions, it gives the air pressure as 703 point something
      millibars. Some time ago, back in 1993 when I had never seen the film,
      I estimated 673 mb. That was based on the kinds of water (NASA says water as well as CO2) clouds that form on Mars, which cannot form at such low

      I compared photos from Mariner 9 and Viking Orbiter, to cloud types shown
      on earth, and the list of their types and the altitudes and air pressure at those
      altitudes that they typically form at on earth.

      Mars has an approx. 2/3 of Earth pattern, mass, gravity, why not air pressure?
      on that basis I called it as 673 mb at datum (the officially designated “sea level”
      for sealess Mars).

      But this film says 703 mb, something you won’t come up with, if trying to fake
      something based on the same assumption!

      My guess is, that someone leaked that film clip to the writers. Wherever they
      got it from, that person had connections to the secret space program.

      Notice the cute – or not – little martial mole at work under the surface,
      leaving a trail as it tunnels in the earth, er, ground. Come to think of it, it
      might not be that small.

      And maybe the idea of tunnelling dangerous worms played out in Tremors
      might have some vague basis in a subconscious viewing of something
      about Mars, maybe in the mind of someone who had been there, or a borrow
      from H P Lovecraft or one of his circle who wrote at least one horror story
      of that sort, and he in turn could have that by unconscious psychism, given
      his nightmare origins of some of his stories.

      scroll down to the Mars stuff. I accidentally called it 1/3 instead of 2/3.
      in those days, I was committed to the Extraterrestrial Hypothesis or ETH.

      • Tim on April 8, 2011 at 9:47 pm

        Fascinating stuff!

  5. Christine on April 7, 2011 at 8:45 pm

  6. Christine on April 7, 2011 at 12:18 am

    dear Dave, fine, but fat chance in succeeding. I think Laurance Rockefeller
    got into some Christianity for a while of the sort that involves concern
    about “attitudinal sins” which is really on target. I dont know how that panned
    out however.

  7. photios on April 6, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    This Richard Dolan makes some brilliant philosophical points in this interview.

    I won’t say much here so others can listen and gather there take, but his argument that “ET” type technology (and I hate using that word ET) is NOT to be focused on “ET” but rather the energy and physics that stands behind the tech. Ecomonic growth is dependent on a nation’s energy supply.

    Another thing to note is IF the theory of abiogenic oil be true, we are still left with the problem of demand always outstripping supply once we are on the back side of decline due to consumption.

    Both Dolan and the Host make great points that you really need to get the other industries that are dependent on oil and gas for their energy supply on board for change, such that you don’t come to economic halt and throw not just people that work in the petroleum industry out of work, but everybody else too.

    Of course, I say this as someone who works as a daily Engineer for a family owned Oil & Gas business that puts food on my own table.

    I would also like to add the following observation: what I see as the future interim solution that is being proponented by various LARGE Independent Producers in this country such as Devon, Chesopeake, Apache, etc., is to move us off the dependency of foreign oil and solely on to cleaner Natural Gas, since we have an abundant supply in this country due totechniques of fracturing shale rock. Again, an [eventual] dead end solution considered as a long term one, but it is an interesting one as an interim and far cheaper on the American people. My father-in-law owns a little Honda Civic NG car.

    I highly recommend this interview even if you don’t buy all the takes on what the author thinks about “ET,” which as he greatly admits is irrelevant.

    • Christine on April 6, 2011 at 6:39 pm

      abiogenic oil – the evidence for this consists of some wells gone dry
      refilling themselves a couple of times, which might mean nothing
      more than that there was an underground connection to an untapped
      oil reserve somewhere deeper or nearby.

      But even IF oil reproduces itself after a while, it doesn’t do it fast
      enough to meet existing need, let alone the increasing need of
      more countries like China going modern.

      so, we still face a peak oil equivalent situation.

      further, the stuff is toxic, and only constant pressure from the people
      at large, keeps the govt. from letting oil and others go back to
      health endangering behavior, air quality issues, etc. notice the rich
      who poison the environment for the rest of us, buy properties in
      locations minimally impacted by pollution.

      shale and sand oil (the latter is really asphalt) are not “sweet”
      but high sulfur, taking more trouble and cost to process.

      • photios on April 6, 2011 at 9:12 pm

        “shale and sand oil (the latter is really asphalt) are not “sweet”
        but high sulfur, taking more trouble and cost to process.”

        Okay, once again, you have no idea what you are talking about. As well as having a theological back ground, I also have an engineering back ground too and make my pay in the industry as an engineer, shall I embarrass you on this topic too?

        What is primarily produced from shale plays like Marcellus, Fayettville, and the Barnette is not oil, but natural gas, and natural gas is a far cleaner per BTU content. Shale, as far as the standard model is concerned, is the source rock. In those three major natural gas plays, there is not an issue of H2S.

        Hydrocarbon that is trapped in sandstone has all kinds of API gravity. Oil trapped in Delaware sandstones in the Northwest shelf is some of the highest API and can vary somewhere between 40 and 50, which is very close to gasoline quality. Tar and Asphalt have an API of 8. The same can be said for sandstone in the Yeso and other Permian age rock. H2S is always a concern in formations such as the Bone Springs and San Andres, but isn’t present in all formations much less in all sandstones. And any geologist or engineer worth his salt that has worked in the industry knows which formations are a potential for H2S hazard.

        Though I primarily agree with the philosophical and economic problems that arise from having such an energy source such as oil and gas, it is simply not true that every person that works in that industry or is a producer in that industry lives like a rich oil tycoon. I watched my family live, die, and struggle in the industry just to light the pipe, and watched other families do the same in Eastern New Mexico. There are those that are evil in Oil & Gas industry, but you need to be careful in how you paint with broad strokes.

        I’m finding more and more that you hardly have any sensible balance in the way that you address an issue. You really ought to be more careful.

        • Christine on April 6, 2011 at 9:44 pm

          “Though I primarily agree with the philosophical and economic problems that arise from having such an energy source such as oil and gas, it is simply not true that every person that works in that industry or is a producer in that industry lives like a rich oil tycoon. ”

          I never said or thought they did. and you haven’t embarassed me on
          anything. I read about this shale and sand oil a few years ago.

          the fact you can come up with such a misquote of me, despite the fact
          this whole conversation is ultimately about ELITES the CEOs and
          upper management NOT the lackeys and field workers, etc., shows me
          that your actual comprehension of whatever you have been educated
          in is open to question.

          I think I am going to ignore you like I ignore Vinnie.

          • Christine on April 6, 2011 at 9:45 pm


            Before World War II, most shale oil was upgraded for use as transport fuels. Afterwards, it was used as a raw material for chemical intermediates, pure chemicals and industrial resins, and as a railroad wood preservative. As of 2008, it is primarily used as a heating oil and marine fuel, and to a lesser extent in the production of various chemicals.[26]

            Shale oil’s concentration of high-boiling point compounds is suited for the production of middle distillates such as kerosene, jet fuel, and diesel fuel.[23][31][32] Additional cracking can create the lighter hydrocarbons used in gasoline.[23][33]”

            you can see this is not equal to standard petroleum. the footnotes
            go to respectable sources.

  8. Vinnie on April 6, 2011 at 9:38 am

    It’s looking more an more like this is the case. Maybe it’s a case where the monster is trying to become Dr. Frankenstein. After all, the nazis are the direct creation of the monied globalists to begin with.

  9. Dave Walton on April 6, 2011 at 9:05 am

    It’s a shame that Richard Dolan’s books are hard to get hold off, and when you can get them they are expensive. I recently read a book by Richard Sauder (Hidden in Plain Sight), of which Dolan wrote the forward. This book explores the huge underground bases that have been built with the “black budgets.” This may very well tie into your recent post on the apocalyptic agenda, a theme similar to the Alternative 3 scenario. These places could serve to be a safe-haven for the elites and their chosen in-crowd, when their anticipated contrived “end-times” arrives. Taken Dolan’s research along with yours, with Hoagland’s etc etc the pitcture that emerges is staggering!! And what I find even more staggering is that the masses aren’t even aware of any of this – how on earth did we get into this situation?

    What I have wondered many times before is this: if, for arguments sake, China (and perhaps Russia) are adversaries of this Anglo-American elite, along with the International Nazis, why have they not come out in the open and informed the world of what these groups are up to? I can think of various different reasons why but the one that seems to make the most sense, and the one that is the most worrying of all, is it’s not a case of the “good” guys against the “bad” guys – it’s various “elite” groups at conflict with each other, each one with the SAME agenda of wanting to end up the total dictator over the rest. IF this is the case…. where does that leave the rest of us??

    • Christine on April 6, 2011 at 9:30 am

      pick the least obnoxious ruler, and emigrate – or remain – accordingly.

      • Dave Walton on April 6, 2011 at 11:33 am

        Emigrate to where? Where could one go that would not be affected by all this? Perhaps the best chance for a better future is to educate ourselves and others, and support public figures and researchers like Joseph, Hoagland, Dolan, Redfern etc?

        I would also suggest a rather radical and seemingly ridiculous proposition: find a way to reach out to these various groups and make them see we can all work together for mutual benefit. After all, if the cosmic war hypothesis is correct, do they really want to repeat history? These people are very smart and devious, but they are not wise; their actions flow against the fundamental rythmn of life. The universe is an open system, in constant flux, exchanging energy and information. These groups attempt to close of this system and natural flow, no matter how powerful they become they cannot escape the universal law of cause and effect. I have heard the theories of how it may be possible to erradicate the cause to avoid the effects, but I think this theory missunderstands the true nature and depth of cause and effect. Ultimately we have to make them see when they harm another, they harm themselves.

        • Christine on April 6, 2011 at 12:35 pm

          short of blowing themselves up with the rest of us, they do not
          harm themselves in harming others. Their population is too small,
          to do anything but benefit from harm to others, especially
          if the harm is such that population decreases radically.

          besides, power is a drug. and these people for the most part
          probably do not know what some of them are dealing with
          or even think it possible. remember this is reconstruction from
          legacy not continuation.

          • Dave Walton on April 6, 2011 at 11:00 pm

            “Ultimately we have to make them see when they harm another, they harm themselves”

            This statement reffered to the one immediately above it concerning cause and effect. Based on a world/universal view of the inextricable link, the interconnectiveness of all life. Are you in danger of studying them and thus thinking like them? “To fight the beast, you must be careful not to become the beast.” Remember my othe point: they are smart and devious, but NOT wise?

            It’s my understanding that cause and effect works basically like this: there are TWO causes and TWO effects – inherent cause and external cause, latent effect and manifest effect; the most fundamental cause being inherent cause. Thus why does an “elite” think and act like it does? It believes it is superior and has the right to act in such a way, perhaps even believes it is a superior species. In other words it dwells in a state of Anger (connected to the ego) – a state where one believes it is above everyone else. This state of life is the inherent cause. The external cause is the masses which are in their way, their perceived slaves. Now their thoughts and actions (essentially the same thing) will produce two effects: manifest effect – here it could be the killing of innocents, whether that be a ritual killing based on occult knowledge or not is irrelivant. The second effect is the latent effect, an effect that becomes a part of them, lodged deep within their own lives ready to receive an effect at a time that is ripe. If it were possible to maipulate the physical medium and time it would matter not because the latent effect is lodged deep wtihin their universal self, which is without time or space, the essence of the physical medium itself. In other words, to harm another is to lodge deep within their own lives, no matter what species or how advanced, an effect that will manifest at a time that is ripe. This chain of events, or karma, must be broken or history will repeat itself – a destiny where they will fall in a cosmic war of some kind. This chain can ONLY be broken by chainging their inherent cause and realise to harm another is to harm oneself. 🙂

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