This is a really interesting story, and if true, will force at least some reconsideration of the "out-of-Africa" hypothesis currently the standard model in genetic reconstructions of human history (indeed, that is the model I followed in Genes, Giants, Monsters, and Men):

Re-Examining the "Out of Africa" Theory and the Origin of Europeoids (Caucasoids) in Light of DNA Genealogy

When one clicks on this article, there is a link to the open access paper itself, which is also well worth reading. Of interest here is the very first paragraph of the actual scientific paper:

"This study concerns the origin of anatomically modern hu- mans, which presumably belong to Y chromosomal haplogroups A through T according to the classification developed in human genetics and DNA phylogeny of man. This paper 1) sets forth a timeframe for the origin of Europeoids (Caucasoids); 2) identi- fies their position among all haplogroups (tribes) known today on the haplogroup tree; and 3) offers evidence to re-examine the validity of the “Out of Africa” concept." (Anatole A. Klyosov*, Igor L. Rozhanskii, "Re-Examining the “Out of Africa” Theory and the Origin of Europeoids (Caucasoids) in Light of DNA Genealogy", Advances in Anthropology, 2012, Vol 2, No 2, 80-86, p. 80).

The first page zeroes in on how the Out of Africa hypothesis originated:

"The concept was based primarily on the premise that Africa possesses the highest variability, or variance, of the human DNA and its segments. Set apart, it is not a strong argument because a mix of different DNA lineages also results in a high variability and, as we show below, it is largely what occurs in Africa. Moreover, a genomic gap exists between some Africans and non-Africans, which has also been interpreted as an argument that the latter descended from Afri- cans. A more plausible interpretation might have been that both current Africans and non-Africans descended separately from a more ancient common ancestor, thus forming a proverbial fork. A region where this downstream common ancestor arose would not necessarily be in Africa. In fact, it was never proven that he lived in Africa."(Ibid.)

The significant "dent" in the Out of Africa hypothesis, according to the authors (Anatole A. Klyosov and Igor L. Rozhanskii), is that European Caucasians do not contain genetic markers common to the African haplogroups A or B (Ibid, p. 2).  Indeed, the evidence, according to Klyosov and Rozhanskii, is rather strong that the Out of Africa hypothesis, at least in its standard version, is on rather wobbly ground:

"A critical datapoint has emerged that disproves the “Out of Africa” concept; specifically, recent data shows that non-Afri- can people have neither M91, P97, M31, P82, M23, M114, P262, M32, M59, P289, P291, P102, M13, M171, M118 (hap-logroup A and its subclades SNPs), nor M60, M181, P90 (haplogroup B SNPs) in their Y-chromosomes.
"In fact, according to the data obtained from the “Walk Through the Y” (chromosome) international project conducted by Family Tree DNA (Texas and Arizona) [see Appendix] not one non-African participant out of more than 400 individuals in the Project tested positive to any of thirteen “African” sub- clades of haplogroup A..." (Ibid.,p. 83)

Now it is quite the crucial matter here to point out that this research is being conducted on the genetic signatures in the Y chromosome, that is to say, in males. On p. 84, Klysov and Rozhanskii produce a tree diagram, which clearly shows the two major branches of the human family(and ponder that diagram closely, and its implications), and it is worth citing their conclusions in this regard:

"These data, based on the SNPs (Single Nucleotide Polymor- phism), along with the data based on the STRs (Short Tandem other and undeniably indicate that non-African people, bearers of haplogroups from C to T, did not descend from the “African” haplogroups A or B. Their origin is likely not in Africa. A higher variance of the DNA in Africa, which was a cornerstone of the “Out of Africa” theory, is explained by Figure 3, in which haplogroup A has been evolving (mutation-wise) for 132,000 years, while the non-European haplogroups are much younger. Hence, there is a lower variability in the latter. The same is related to language variability, which has also been used as an argument of the African origin of non-Africans. We believe that those arguments upon which the “Out of Africa” theory was based were, in fact, conjectural, incomplete and not actually data-driven. Therefore, we are left holding the question of the origin of Homo sapiens."(Ibid., pp. 84-85.)

It remains to be seen how other geneticists will react to these findings or even if they will be confirmed. But for those studying ancient texts, it is interesting to recall that they speak of the male donor in the ancient "Mesopotamian genetic engineering project" - if we may call it that - as being "one of the gods." It is additionally interesting that so many ancient myths, from the Norse to the Japanese, seem to indicate that some group of very European-described humanoids interacted with their local cultures and populations. This is a story that of course bears watching, but we can be sure that whatever debates this may touch off, or speculations concerning its possible relationship to ancient texts and myths, those debates will take place out of the public eye.

See you on the flip side.

Posted in

Joseph P. Farrell

Joseph P. Farrell has a doctorate in patristics from the University of Oxford, and pursues research in physics, alternative history and science, and "strange stuff". His book The Giza DeathStar, for which the Giza Community is named, was published in the spring of 2002, and was his first venture into "alternative history and science".


  1. MattB on June 24, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    Interesting ‘Ancient’.

    “Egypt = Egyptos in greek= Αιγυπτος =υπτίως του Αιγαίου =beneath Aegean ,not Ht-ka-pta but something totally different.”

    I would contend (via the argument put forward by R. Drew Griffith) that the word is derived from the Egyptian term, h{w)t-k\-pth, /hatkap^ta/, “the house of the ka (soul or spirit) of (the god) Ptah” {Book of the Dead, spell15.1 etc.), which is the religious name oi Mn-nfr, “(Pharaoh Phiops I is) established and beautiful” or Memphis, the capital city of Egypt some forty kilometres upriver from the Nile delta.

    This city-name appears as Hi-ku-{up-)ta-ah in the Akkadian of the Tell El- Amama Tablets (84. 37, 139. 8). That the word had been borrowed into Greek already in the Mycenaean period is proved by the existence in Linear B of the adjectival form, a man’s name, A^-ku-pi-ti-jo, Αἴγυπτος ,based on the adjective derived from Ai’ydtitoc; (KN Db 1 105 + 1446).

    As to semantic content, while Egyptian h(w)t-kl-pth denotes a city, in Homer Αἴγυπτος; denotes in the masculine the river Nile (Od. 3. 300 etc.) and in the feminine the land of Egypt {Od.17.448etc.).

    In post-Homeric usage the word came to be used exclusively of the land and a new name had to be found specifically for the river. (The Linear B evidence suggests that this development had already begun in Mycenaean times: Aegyptius was an “Egyptian,” rather than a “Nilotic man.”) The Nile is an important landmark and so deserved a name, yet the Egyptians themselves did not give it one, calling it either simply “the river” {itrw) or, in the appropriate season, the annual “inundation”{h’^py).

    The Greeks named the river after the most important city upon it and, needing a name for the whole country, quite naturally applied that for Egypt is the gift of the river (Hdt. 2.5) name in the feminine gender to the land as a whole. (Other peoples used other strategies: Akkadian calls it Mi-is-ri-i, “the border land” [cf. Hittite Mi-iz-ri, Hebrew Misrayim, Genesis 12. 10 etc., Mycenaean Mi-sa-ra-jo, KN F 841]; the Egyptians themselves called it various things, most notably Kmt, “the black (land)” [cf. Xr|}i{a, Plut. Mor. 364c], a term arguably familiar to the Mycenaean epic bards.)

    The ambiguity that resulted from applying the same term to both river and land was resolved by coining, perhaps from Egyptian n) r)w-h)w{t), “the mouths of the front part,” the term NeUoc; (Hes. Theog. 338, Solon fr. 28 West, Danais fr. 1 Davies, Bemabe) to designate the river.

    There is nothing strange in all of this. Cities can give their names to lands, and Homer does this when referring to the Phoenicians in general . Semantically, therefore, the development from h{w)t-kl-pth to Αἴγυπτος ; conforms perfectly to Greek usage.

    I don’t see any arguments for the Greeks being Africans, I do see however, powerful arguments for the ‘borrowing’ of significant linguistic elements, philosophical constructs, scientific theorems and religious systems from Egypt and the Levant. I am in agreement concerning to ‘alternate’ pre-history of the region. Excavating giants beneath Athens would not surprise me at all.

  2. MattB on June 22, 2012 at 11:26 pm

    Go right ahead ‘Concerned’, I will go by proper academic rigour and use many sources.

  3. MattB on June 22, 2012 at 5:27 pm

    ‘Conflate linguistics with race’ huh? You are the one claiming that ‘aryans’ civilised the world-and the foundation for that argument is LANGUAGE! For someone who promotes ‘aryanism’, you don’t seem to be very familiar with organisations such as the Ahnenerbe or the Thule Gesellschaft.

    You continually mention the superiority of the ‘aryan race’ and the evil nature of Jews. I find your view that non ‘aryans’ are minderwertigen scientifically, linguistically and historically laughable.

    It appears that haven’t read particularly widely; the various pan German and PanEuropean cults from the 19 century were fixated with using language as the key driving force in proving that an ‘aryan’ global culture seeded the world with technology, language, art, science etc.
    I hate to tell you mate-THEY FAILED

    If you had read Dr. Farrell’s books you would know that some of these idiots are still trying to prove supremacy of the ‘white’ ‘races’ due to a pseudo-scientific belief that they are descendent of the gods and somehow better than the rest of humanity.

    Victor Mair provided NO evidence of technological transfer-and good luck in finding an ancient super civilisation in central Asia to match. The caucasians found in this region were highly nomadic-ever read about the Scythians?

    If I were closed minded i wouldn’t be conversing here, engaging with other who believe that our pre-history is quite different to the standard model. Unfortunately for you, the pre-history you argue for is complete nonsense and the polar opposite in its philosophical base to the owner of this forum.

    Also, I am a white man, 190cm and 110kg-green eyes and fair hair. My wife is blonde with blue eyes and so are my children. Please don’t throw the racial bias argument around.

    Please tell me you you subscribe to the hateful nonsense of ‘Theozoologie oder die Kunde von den Sodoms-Aefflingen und den Gotter-Elektron’

    It sure sounds like it.

    • Concerned on June 22, 2012 at 8:05 pm

      MattB wrote: ‘‘Conflate linguistics with race’ huh? You are the one claiming that ‘aryans’ civilised the world-and the foundation for that argument is LANGUAGE!’

      Actually, language is only ONE aspect, as I have REPEATEDLY STATED. It is you who have dismissed other forms of evidence. The most important evidence is skeletal. A scientist skilled at this can tell the race of an individual just by a fraction of a skeleton (forensic scientists do this on a routine basis, and the Ahnenerbe also did such testing around the world). Another type of evidence is mythic tradition: namely, who were the people that are said to have founded a civilization. For instance, Igor Witkowski uses many mythic traditions to show that whites had founded the civilizations in the Pacific and the Americas. It is unfathomable arrogance to dismiss mythic traditions of any people as having no truth to them, especially considering the consistency of their stories regarding white civilization-founders. It is also illogical and arrogant to assume that those who take myths seriously and draw ethnic conclusions are all in agreement with Lanz von Liebenfels.

      RE: “the Jews”, you wrote on this thread: ‘You do realise Mary Lefkowitz is a Jew who hates blacks…don’t you?’
      You then implied that it was ‘odd’ that I would defend someone of Jewish heritage. Your prejudices are astounding, MattB.

      RE: Victor Mair: MattB, you either have a very poor memory, or you haven’t read his works. Here is a link to the transcript of the Nova documentary of his travels in the Takla Makan, which is freely available on the Internet:

      Here are some excerpts from the documentary:
      ‘The mummy people used the wheel long before it was known in China’
      ‘At the time bronze was spreading eastward, the Chinese recorded their first descriptions of European-looking nomads.’
      ‘But could horseback riding have reached these parts centuries before it was known in China?’ The documentary goes on to show that the Tocharians did have horseback riding before the Chinese, and better textile technology, the wheel, metal-working, etc.
      ‘But how could a Chinese man like Mr. He have met a blond woman 3,000 years ago? According to many scholars and predominant Chinese belief, China’s civilization was essentially evolving in isolation from the West. Though it concerns a distant past, the question resonates in the present. Most of the people who dwell in China’s westernmost regions don’t look especially Chinese. Many of these people, known as Uyghurs, don’t think of themselves as Chinese, either. In recent years, some have called for autonomy from China, and to them, the mummies are proof the their ancestors were an ethnically distinct group, here long before the arrival of Chinese conquerors. As a result, the question of the mummies’ ethnic identity is a sensitive matter.’
      ‘Since the whole issue of the mummies is laden with political stakes, they [Mair and colleagues] are constantly accompanied by two Chinese officials.’
      Some of the Chinese wanted to sabotage the research: ‘It seems the Chinese had planted a headless body here, to avoid the risk of unearthing a European-type face.’
      The documentary, which shows the viewer Mair’s journey and the development of his research, ends on this note:
      ‘A people long dead and neglected have emerged to reclaim their place in history, and radically change our view of a critical time. Inhabitants of the Takla Makan desert, ethnically European people, breached China’s fabled isolation 1,000 years earlier than previously thought. Laying the foundation for the Great Silk Road, the mummy people shaped the very future of civilization.’

      Victor Mair, in his own published academic work, goes into much detail on the ethnicity of the ancient white civilization in central Asia and it is worth getting a copy, for those interested.

      MattB wrote: ‘The caucasians found in this region were highly nomadic-ever read about the Scythians?’
      Again, an arrogant remark. Of course I know about the Scythians. However, not all the whites in central Asia were nomadic. For instance, the Nova documentary describes the Tocharian civilization thus:
      ‘Over the centuries, the Silk Road sprouted a civilization of its own. It was as fantastically long as it was oddly narrow, lined with imposing temples and thriving cities. It was thought that these structures were built by the Chinese, but it now seems that the architects were a little-known local people known as the Tocharians, who seem to have appeared in these parts over 2,000 years ago.’

      • MattB on June 22, 2012 at 9:40 pm

        Hate to burst your ‘aryan’ bubble again mate-Tocharians were, according to Strabo and Ptolemy, Scythians (takharoi) . Modern scholarship (as opposed to the highly racist nonsense of Muller that you rely on) links the Takharoi with the Yeuzhi.

        The Yuezhi may be a caucasoid people, though No Caucasoid skulls were found by archaeologists at the Yuezhi homeland, and a site thought to be of Yuezhi and Huns found in the Barkol County showed characteristics similar to a culture in Inner Mongolia. Hardly ‘aryan’.

        Also, when we examine the genetic features from said mummies and peoples of the area we find that the earliest Caucasoids of the Tarim were already substantially mixed with Mongoloids at least in their mtDNA. Still no white master race.

        This reduces our confidence that they spoke an Indo-European language, as there is a pattern of Caucasoid patrilineages combined with Mongoloid mtDNA in present-day non-IE South Siberians (

        Let’s take it a step further. If the Tocharians are ‘aryan’ as you argue then we should see the genetic markers sorting of Y-chromosome lineages in the present-day Uyghur population of Xinjiang that is assumed to have absorbed the pre-Turkic inhabitants of the region:

        Remove all east Eurasian lineages that are likely to be associated with the Xiongnu, Mongols, or Uyghur

        Remove all west Eurasian lineages that can be explained from a non-Tocharian source (such as Iranians, or various Silk Road outliers)
        See if anything is left

        The phylogeographic analysis of these lineages does leave some candidates:
        Haplogroup D can be excluded as Mongolian/Tibetan
        Haplogroup E can be excluded as Mediterranean/African
        Haplogroup C can be excluded as Altaic/South Asian (C5)
        Haplogroup G2a* (West Asian) does not seem to have an important presence (3 samples)
        Haplogroup H can be excluded as South Asian
        Haplogroup I can be excluded as a European outlier (1 sample)
        Haplogroup J*(xJ2) can be excluded as NE Caucasian/Semitic with small presence (2 samples)
        Haplogroup NO; haplogroup N has been founded in a Xiongnu context, so it is likely intrusive; O is East Eurasian
        Haplogroup Q is also associated with Xiongnu nomads from Pengyang

        This analysis leaves four candidates: J2-M172, R1a1a-M17, R1b-M343, and L-M20.

        We can exclude L-M20 because its overall low frequency in most populations makes it difficult, at present, to make a definitive pronouncement on its origin, except perhaps for its Indian L1 clade which is absent here.

        J2, present in both its J2a and J2b subclades here at substantial frequencies has an origin in West Asia, as well as a substantial presence among Indo-Iranian speakers. While it is possible (indeed likely, in my opinion) to have been present among the Tocharians, we cannot exclude the possibility that it represents either a specifically Iranian influence, or even something earlier than both.

        R1a1a is present in both the steppe, as well as South Asia and West Asia. Its high frequency among some Indo-Iranian populations also makes it difficult to ascribe a specifically Tocharian origin to it.

        This leaves only R1b-M343 as a candidate. Have we found a genuine Tocharian genetic signature?

        The West Asian roots of R-M343 (?)

        R-M343 and its main R-M269 clade are in a sense exasperating: the combination of their widespread distribution from Africa, the Atlantic, to the depths of Inner Asia, combined with their apparent Y-STR-estimated youth make it nearly impossible to associate them with a specific archaeological or historical phenomenon.

        And there you have it-the most likely genetic make up of your precious Tocharians is Western Asian, who are of lighter features than Eastern and Southern Asian.

        No pure aryans here. Also, the Chinese were using the wheel from at least 2000 B.C as opposed to the date posed by anti-sino archaeology of 1200 B.C
        And no i do not advocate for a totally independent development in China-no culture is purely independent.

        • Concerned on June 22, 2012 at 10:08 pm

          The dessicated corpses found in the Tarim basin have blond hair, have Caucasian skeletal structure, etc. Look up the photos for yourself. DNA testing is notoriously unreliable in anthropology, and there have been so many incorrect findings that many anthropologists don’t use them at all any more.

          Professor Victor Mair is the world’s leading expert on the Tocharians. Here is a lecture by him:

          In this same lecture series at Penn Museum, it is also explained why DNA testing is not respected. Rather, the evidence in front of one’s own eyes is primary–i.e. the dessicated corpses themselves. (I cannot remember which lecture it is in the series, but it is instructive, and the lecture series on this area of the world is excellent.)

          • MattB on June 22, 2012 at 10:52 pm

            So you think that because a skeleton looks like a white person it must be from an advanced civilisation?

            To argue that ‘your own eyes’ is enough to prove an argument is simply unsatisfactory. If we conducted science, archaeology and linguistics in this manner, well humanity would be a very silly story.

            Simply looking at a skeletal structure and saying ‘it looks aryan’ just doesn’t wash. Many ethnic groups in the world have identical skeletal structures.

            You do realise the Nazis conducted their race experiments based on physical observations. They placed them in order of ‘acceptable’ appearance and structure believing themselves to be more evolved than blacks, Jews and others. As we well know this is horrific pseudo science.

            DNA testing does have its weaknesses (as does every dating and categorising method), but it is far more conclusive than simply looking at a skeleton and saying ‘Yep its an aryan superman’.

          • Concerned on June 22, 2012 at 11:06 pm

            Not just skeletons, but dessicated corpses (and hundreds of them). It is your word against the best scholarship in the field. Victor Mair’s work is a lifetime endeavor, and the Nova documentary “Mysterious Mummies of China” features him. Just seeing the images of these amazing ancient white people from central Asia, and what Victor Mair and his colleagues say about them, and you’ll understand how obfuscating MattB’s arguments are.

        • Concerned on June 22, 2012 at 10:22 pm

          PS: Victor Mair calls the people living in the Takla Makan “Tocharians”. There were various names for these Aryans (or tribes of these Aryans), and it also depended on the different languages. Really, the name that we now typically give to them is secondary (whether Yuezhi, Rouzhi, etc.). The point is is that they were of the white race and they had a technology far in advance of the Chinese, as Victor Mair shows.

          • MattB on June 22, 2012 at 10:40 pm

            No they didn’t. You obviously didn’t bother reading the genetic argument did you?

            No aryans and no advanced technology to be found.
            So now you are admitting that the argument does require linguistic analysis. The name assigned to these people is very important, we need to know who the ancients were talking about. To simply say ‘they are all aryans’ doesn’t satisfy academic rigour.

            ‘Concerned’, you have allowed yourself to be influenced far too greatly by one position-one that isn’t supported by genetics or linguistics.

          • Concerned on June 22, 2012 at 11:13 pm

            No, I am going by what the top scholarship in the field says about it.

  4. MattB on June 22, 2012 at 5:22 am

    And you just sunk your whole argument. Waddell tried to link the Indus Valley culture with Sumeria (as with the while world). Unfortunately for him Sumerians ARE NOT ‘ARYAN” as you put it.

    Sumerian as a language has its own classification-not related to ‘indo-european’ (problematic term). According to Greenburg Sumerian is more than likely an afro-asiatic language, possibly related to Tibeto-Burman languages according to Juan Braun (any connection to a current language is highly problematic though). Akkadian which came after Sumerian was an afro-asiatic language. ‘Aryans’ not doing so well here….

    The term “Sumerian” is the common name given to the ancient non-Semitic inhabitants of southern Mesopotamia, Sumer, by the Semitic Akkadians. The Sumerians referred to themselves as ùĝ saĝ gíg-ga , phonetically uŋ saŋ giga, literally meaning “the black-headed people”(W. Hallo, W. Simpson (1971). The Ancient Near East. New York: Harcourt, Brace, Jovanovich. p. 28.).

    Not seeing any blonde haired blued eye fair skinned aryans here.

    Sumerian is very similar to proto Chinese in script. An argument could be made that Xi Xia dynasty Chinese may be related to the Sumerian language. Certainly the IChing is a valuable link in this regard.

    As for the Tarim Basin Mummies, all they prove is that Caucasians had contact with Western China centuries before traditional dates attest (the same dates and model that sees blacks as having no influence in European history by the way). There is NO EVIDENCE that Chinese society developed because of encounters with red headed whites.

    To suggest that the brilliance of the Chinese could only have occurred because of whites is simple lunacy. China has been a technological and philosophical powerhouse for over 5000 years. Please tell me you don’t think redheads are superior to Chinese because they have white skin.

    I am not disagreeing that a being(s) that had rainbow features and a fair complexion toured the world in very ancient antiquity spreading technology, or that ‘european’ like people sailed the high seas millennia than standard history (Japanese, Chinese and Africans have been found in strange places as well). I am disagreeing that this creature(s) is somehow the progenitor of a modern ‘race’ that can claim superiority. This idea is found in the roots of Nazism-NO THANKS!

    • sk on June 22, 2012 at 1:44 pm

      No one is insisting that Japan or China or Africa have no borders and bring in millions of others, insisting that the Japanese or Chinese or Africans assimilate with them until they are no longer, what they are. A program of GENOCIDE. Only in White kids home, schools , churches whatever is this being demanded. So WHO’s the Nazi here?

      • Jedi on June 22, 2012 at 2:19 pm

        the para sites have no where to run too….so they have set up a squatters camp in white nations…and of course they are the victim…lol.

    • Concerned on June 22, 2012 at 4:02 pm

      Again, you consistently conflate linguistics with race, which is inaccurate. But even linguistically, the language in Sumer was linked to the white race (see Igor Witkowski, Axis of the World, 2008, p. 62).

      And the Chinese did receive the most important technologies from whites in central Asia; this has been shown conclusively by professor Victor Mair of the University of Pennsylvania. He is the world’s leading expert on this. Oh, wait, is he a “Nazi” or “KKK” too? 😉

      Your writing shows that you are closed minded regarding the link between race and creation of civilizations. Your a priori stance is that you cannot possibly believe that the white race is superior at creating civilizations, as that would lead to “Nazism”. Thus you are admittedly closed minded and this will bias your view of the world, regardless of the evidence.

      • Jedi on June 22, 2012 at 4:24 pm

        I notice that no one is posting here from Haiti, Rhodesia….rumour has it in the feel good circles they are co attempting a mission to mars.

        Of course all the cannibalism, poverty, rape and other un civilized behaviour is pure propaganda.

        go toby go

  5. MattB on June 22, 2012 at 4:01 am

    You do realise Mary Lefkowitz is a Jew who hates blacks…don’t you?

    Kind of makes your case look a bit odd doesn’t it?

    Bernal is not an ideologue at all. It is a good thing he is not a ‘classicist’ as this discipline has been ruled by rigid anti-semitism and blatant Eurocentrism for 200 years.

    Lefkowitz’ reply didn’t answer any of the issues raised by Bernal, all she did was justify why her discipline should remain ‘pure’ from other disciplines-what nonsense.

    The use of ‘Afrocentrism’ is also problematic. Bernal isn’t really an afrocentrist. His thesis relies more on Western Semitic influence than African influence-even he was appalled how the afrocentrist extremists abused and misinterpreted his work.

    • Concerned on June 22, 2012 at 4:29 am

      It makes the point all the stronger. Lefkowitz isn’t eurocentric, and it is ad hominem to suggest that she hates blacks. (She actually supports the idea of a multiracial melting pot and makes this very clear.) Lefkowitz is an expert in Classical Studies and she only reluctantly critiqued Bernal, because even though his arguments are obviously flawed, there is such an oppressive atmosphere on university campuses, that anyone who criticizes Aphrocentrism is called “racist”, “eurocentrist”, “KKK”, etc. and there is a lot of intimidation.

      • MattB on June 22, 2012 at 4:37 am

        She didn’t ‘reluctantly critique’ his arguments at all. She organised a ‘coalition of the willing’ to defeat him-hardly reluctant.

        You might well do a little more research into the racial tensions within said Universities. Lefkowitz was a willing combatant in the afrocentric debate. Just because she is an ‘expert’ does not premise that she is correct. The philosophical underpinnings of her discipline are flawed, and have been flawed for a very long time.

        I hardly see ‘pro aryan’ positions within universities being a victim. Remember the Freedom rides? (In America and Australia btw). Remember the issues getting black students on campuses within ‘The South’?

        • Concerned on June 22, 2012 at 3:26 pm

          Actually, she was reluctant and reasonably so. She formed a coalition because she did not want to get isolated and abused by the aphrocentrists. She did get abused, but at least she wasn’t isolated.

          Also, the ‘Freedom Rides’ in America were half a century ago! A lot has happened since then, if you hadn’t noticed. Political correctness has been on campuses for over a generation.

  6. MattB on June 22, 2012 at 3:38 am

    Greeks were not ‘aryans’ at all.

    You are trying to use the ‘broad Aryan model’ proposed by Niebuhr and Miller which has been debunked by linguists and anthropologists. However a few problems exist for you:

    1. Lack of ancient attestation. Thucydides does mention northern invasions into Greece, but most of the population ALREADY in Greece were proto-Greek speakers and NOT ethnically related to Dorians and Ionians. Therefore linguistically Greek was in use in a ‘non indo-european’ population with NO connection to Sanskrit. In other words it is not an aryan culture.

    2. The Greeks themselves promoted the notion of autochthony in their oldest traditions-well before these ‘aryans’ arrive in Greece.

    3. Ancient Greek is not a pure language and has a high degree of loan words (in Linear B) that come from Egyptian, central African and West Semitic. The language was not pure BEFORE the Ionian and Dorian arrivals and remained a hybrid language-no pure language and no pure ‘race’. Dorians and Ionians hybridised with Mycenaean dialects, not the other way around.

    4. According to Herodotus, the Greeks learned most of their scientific, engineering, religious and philosophical systems from the Egyptians, with some considerable influence from the Levant. Sorry, no ‘Greek miracle’ here.

    5. The Chinese were technologically superior to anyone in the Mediterranean basin——–THEY ARE NOT ARYANS!

    6. South American cultures didn’t have any difficulty building advanced cultures in wet climates-bogs, rainforest and high mountains——THEY ARE NOT ARYANs!

    7. Old Kingdom dynastic Egypt——NOT ARYAN

    8. Sumer—–NOT ARYAN

    9. Babylon—-NOT ARYAN

    10. Assyria——-NOT ARYAN

    11. Hittites——NOT ARYAN

    House of cards.

    • Concerned on June 22, 2012 at 4:31 am

      Greeks were part of the white race, and the Greek aristocracies were especially fair in appearance (as were of course the Greek gods). The ancient Greek language was also Indo-European.

      Unfortunately you assume that Aryans originally came from northern Europe; thus (ironically) you are using a eurocentric definition. As Igor Witkowski’s book shows (as well as other fine researchers), the very ancient peoples of the Americas, the Pacific, and much of Asia were of the white race. This is supported by skeletal evidence, linguistics, mythic traditions, etc. Lawrence A. Waddell showed that the most ancient civilization builders in the Near East were Aryans, etc.

      RE: China: actually, it has been shown that the earliest known flow of technology was from the white race (in central Asia) to the Chinese. Victor Mair of the University of Pennsylvania has famously shown this. There is also a PBS documentary on this, if you don’t have time to read academic literature.

      I personally don’t have time to spend defending what I have written, regarding information that I thought was quite well known.

    • Jedi on June 22, 2012 at 5:10 am

      what a pile of crap

      • Jedi on June 22, 2012 at 5:37 am

        That was not directed at you concerned.

        The Chinese denied that pyramids existed in China until only recently, and have been busy chopping of the blond haired ROYAL mummies .

        Recently an ancient Ayran burial site has been discovered in Tibet.

        Do not commit adultery (ie dna mix) and stay away from gonorrhea infected prostitutes it will affect your dna for 4 generations. ie Do not covet thy neighbors wife. Imagine what you would look like after thousands of years and the myriad of genetic problems.

    • Ancient on June 22, 2012 at 5:44 pm

      Αncient Greek is a pure very old language and HAS NOT loan words from Egypt or anywhere else . Let me see one (1) example of the opposite.
      Herodotus ‘ mother was not Greek . Ploutarchos ,one of the well known ancient Greek writers wrote a book about “Herodotus’ nonsense”. All of Herodotus books were saved , strange enough ,as 98% of ancient Greek books have been destroyed .There are copies in libraries like in Vatican but not for the public .
      Dogon . Τheir tradition comes from Garamantes , inhabitants of a North Africa colony of Lemnos island where Dogon people used to live 1000 years ago. Of course ,this kind of knowledge existed in ancient Egypt too .
      There was a cataclysmic event 12-10.000 years ago ,many things changed in the Aegean area and lots of people had to leave their homes heading to different places and many of them came back later (example .Dorians ,the sons of Hercules who returned home ) .Pelasgi , the so called proto-greeks ,Dorians and Ionians were in fact members of the same family/race .
      Plato wrote that Greeks were the first ones who dared to approach the sea again,after the flood . Plato, in Timeo ,wrote that the ancient Egyptian priests told Solon that the Hellenic civilization is 1000 years older than theirs.
      There was a great civilization in Egypt of course but how happened and people built the pyramids while in neolithic age ,is something to think of !
      Also ,it’s not possible to find Antikythera mechanism in Egypt or Middle East … There are at least 3 pyramids in Greece ,one very big ,near Thiva town ,similar to South America ones . For more information ,read Manethon’s book about who were the first kings of Egypt .Not easy book to find though ,it says Moses real name was Osarsif ,an Egyptian priest /prince. So,the first Pharaoh after the gods ,was Mena (Min) .He came from somewhere . Such a coincidence ,Menyans was the name of a well known group of people in Volos aerea and Elefsina ,Greece .They were very good in constructions .
      Greeks knew three major floods ,not one .Not Noah’s one . Noah comes from the ancient hellenic verb neo ,which means-what else- I swim .
      Another friend , Adam of Bible . Same with Adamas ,the first human ,at Hellenic old Kaverean mysteries .Racist coincidence of course !
      Many -many lies about human prehistory .

      • MattB on June 23, 2012 at 4:02 pm

        Actually, Egyptian loan words in Greek make up at a conservative estimate 25%. A high estimate is 40%. This does not include the very percentage of West Semitic loan words and others that do not have an Indo-European root.

        • Ancient on June 24, 2012 at 4:03 am

          Of course . 40% of the Greek words are Egyptian loan and the rest Semitic loan . Is there something left? Hmmm, lets see …ah ! Indo-European loan !!
          By the way, where is this Indo-European center ? Νοt found yet .
          I have asked for one example ,haven’t seen it so far ,only estimations. Estimations about Athena being black ,Socrates of Chinese origin , Plato from Sahara desert ,Pythagoras from Antarctica . What’s the purpose of these estimations ? This is not a scientific approach .
          Against estimations ,I could think of another famous word, pyramid. Egyptians had their own word for it ,but the greek word you use in english is “pyr-amis” which means fire implement . An energy instrument .
          I remember something I have read some time ago .National Geografic magazine wrote .” The Phoenicians (of Semitic origin -even though this word is Greek too and means red ) had many libraries with literature, poetry and other important writings .And then it says “…We haven’t ,of course,found anything at all , none of these … .(!!!) ” More estimations … Estimations based on how people who sacrificed , burnt alive their first born child to their god, if not eaten before, had great poems,philosophy ,literature .Surprise we haven’t found anything ,indeed.
          While there is nobody arguing the fact that chinese language is of chinese origin ,the mayan being mayan ,the egyptian being egyptian and so forth , some people have problems with greek language and greek gods .They must have been something else . I don’t have a problem with african people or any other race ,not in the least ,but why a white / caucasian race like Greeks would ever adore black gods and speak a semitic/egyptian language ??
          I understand that there is a group of people who like such kind of estimations and has this problem to prove the ” one and only ,me ,myself and I – I ‘m the only god – “source” some thousands years now ,it’s not something new at all. But they must understand that fluoride in the water and TV nonsense ,to mention some of their methods , does not work very well and they are going to lose the game now that they are too close to win.

          • MattB on June 24, 2012 at 5:53 am

            Linear A and Linear B are ‘Indo-European’ centres.

            An example:

            h{w)t-kl-pth to Αἴγυπτος (A^-ku-pi-ti-jo, )

          • Ancient on June 24, 2012 at 1:31 pm

            . “…. In the early period of Egypt, during the Old Kingdom, Egypt was referred to as Kemet (Kermit), or simply Kmt , which means the Black land. They called themselves “remetch en Kermet”, which means the “People of the Black Land”. The term refers to the rich soil found in the Nile Valley and Delta. But it was also sometimes referred to as Deshret, or dshrt , which refers to the “Red Land”, or deserts of which Egypt is mostly comprised.

            Later, Egyptians referred to their country as “Hwt-ka-Ptah” (Ht-ka-Ptah, or Hout-ak Ptah) , which means “Temple for Ka of Ptah”, or more properly, “House of the Ka of Ptah” Ptah was one of Egypt’s earliest Gods…. ”

            Egypt = Egyptos in greek= Αιγυπτος =υπτίως του Αιγαίου =beneath Aegean ,not Ht-ka-pta but something totally different.

            “…Linear A is one of two scripts used in ancient Crete before Mycenaean Greek Linear B; Cretan hieroglypic is the second script. In Minoan times, before the Mycenaean Greek dominion, Linear A was the official script for the palaces and religious activities, and hieroglyphs were mainly used on seals. …”

            Dr. Minas Tsikritzis recently decoded Linear A ,details in his last book .

            So , when you say “Linear A and Linear B are ‘Indo-European’ centres.” , scripts – not centers (?), it means that the so called indo european center could have been to the Aegean Land / Sea area before the flood .


            And here you can see α 7.500 bC inscription found in Dispilio lake (Kastoria ,Macedonia-Greece -of course) There are two similar ones in Allonisos island area ,North Aegean :


            During excavations for the new subway / metro construction in Athens,some years ago, they found many interesting things ,among them , giant human bones . They disappeared everything .
            It doesnot fit the out of Africa story.
            So, as per human origin and human races ,one thing is sure .We have still a lot to learn ,long way to go . But we go nowhere when scientists have a frame theory and try to adjust findings so to agree with the theory .We need open mind search ,not Procrustes bed (google it ,it’s an interesting story ,explains what happens today from history to economy) .

  7. Concerned on June 21, 2012 at 5:21 pm

    Martin Bernal’s PSEUDO-scholarly book “Black Athena — The Afroasiatic Roots of Classical Civilization”, which MattB has referred to, is exactly the sort of liberal, happy nonsense that the NWO wants to implant in people’s minds.

    It also goes to show the absurd lengths that the negrophiles go to: to claim that Egypt was a black civilization, etc. Blacks were used as SLAVES by the ancient Egyptians, as Egyptian art consistently shows. Miscegenation brought about the corruption of that empire, and by the 1st millennium BCE even the ruling class was of mixed blood.

    The present ruling class –anti-whites, such as Goldman, Rothschild, Ben Shalom Bernanke, etc.– understand the significance of race, and that’s why they force non-white immigration into EVERY white country. They know that if the civilization builders par excellence –Aryans– are destroyed, then they can more easily rule. They view blacks as natural slaves. Blacks have always been slaves of preference for ruling elites, and have been shipped en masse around the world as a consequence; rather than just using slaves from less distant areas.

    • legioXIV on June 21, 2012 at 5:29 pm

      I think that you should perhaps study a bit more about slavery in the ancient world. Look at the Roman, Greek, Persian, Parthian, Anatolian, Celtic, Gallic and Germanic institutions of slavery in particular and you will find that the hypothesis that these societies and their elites in particular viewed blacks as a natural slave race to be erroneous. The majority of slaves in this period were not black. Slavery at that time was multi-cultural to borrow a modern phrase.

      • Concerned on June 21, 2012 at 7:29 pm

        That is correct, but it is also misleading. The most famous slave revolt in history was lead by ARYANS: Spartacus (of Thrace), and two Celts (Oenomaus and Crixus). Other extant stories of gladiators rebelling is also instructive: Aryans were overwhelmingly those who rebelled, even though there were slaves from all over the known world.

        It was known by the Greeks and Romans that the northern European tribes were very difficult to enslave. Aristotle famously wrote that they had an extraordinary degree of “thumos” (often translated as “spiritedness”). Tacitus wrote of the Germanics that they had a defiant look in their eyes.

        The Greeks and Romans admired blond hair, light eyes and hair very much, and their aristocracies were very fair skinned as well.

        • MattB on June 22, 2012 at 12:36 am


          Thracians were ethnically closer to Macedonians and Greeks. To suggest that ‘Aryans’ led such a revolt is complete nonsense. The bulk of Spartacus’ ‘army’ was made up of disenfranchised Italic people (mostly poor Romans who were victims of Roman agricultural policies) and slaves-of many ethnic backgrounds.

          If you had a closer look at Roman literature you would see that fair people were associated with violence, drunkeness and poor discipline. Rome fought and conquered ‘aryan’ peoples for centuries-most of Britain, France, Spain, Belgium, central Turkey etc etc. Hardly a ‘master race’.

          • Concerned on June 22, 2012 at 2:25 am

            Actually, the Thracians were considered BARBARIANS by the Greeks (and the Macedonians were for a long time considered borderline barbarian).

            According to Aristotle, what made the northern tribes different in terms of character –and Aristotle did have experience, as he came from near there– was the very high level of thumos (“spiritedness”) of these peoples. The Thracians were considered extremely warlike (known as the people of Ares). They were considered undisciplined and unharmonious. But this fierceness helped prevent the northern tribes from being conquered.

            The Hellenes had both thumos and restraint. Restraint was exemplified in the famous Apollonian maxim “Meden Agan” (“nothing in excess”).

            There were important similarities between those in the south and those in the north: they were all ARYAN peoples.

            A significant difference was the harsher climate further north in Europe, and much of the land was as yet still not drained, and much of it was thus boggy, and thus difficult to create a more advanced civilization.

            What they had in common was their beauty and ability to create technologies and build civilizations.

            In contrast, many other races did not have even the most primitive technologies. E.g. when modern European colonists first came to the Americas the inhabitants had no sailing vessels, no wheels, etc. The non-whites had killed or driven out the whites and thereby lost the technologies that the Aryan civilization builders had created. I suggest reading Igor Witkowski’s “Axis of the World”, about whites in the ancient Pacific and Americas, if you haven’t already read it.

          • Jedi on June 22, 2012 at 6:29 am

            Concerned, the word is thumos, and its meaning is anger, fierceness, indignation and wrath according to my dictionary. The authors compiled the meaning from ancient texts before axioms were applied by the devils.

            Interestingly the ancient meaning of the word corruption (kapeleuo) means retailer, especially inn keepers (whore houses), and alcohol sellers and generally anything for sordid personal advantage. In contrast too emporos, merchant.

            furthermore it is too handle deceitfully, involving the decietful dealing of adulterating the word of truth. It also has the broader significance of doing so to make dishonest gain. Those to who the apostle refer to make merchandise of souls through covetness. SLAVERY, prostitution.

            Now think of Jesus one act of violence.

            Jesus bloodlines were unadulterated through Judah’s relationship with his widowed daughter in law. which produced 2 children.

            The joke in Pinocchio, is the more he lies the bigger his nose. This may add further insite into the blood libel accusation and metaphor of poisoning the well.

          • Concerned on June 22, 2012 at 3:32 pm

            Reply to Jedi: Thanks for your input. “Thumos” is typically translated as “spiritedness” in academic literature. Wikipedia states that ‘Thumos is a Greek word expressing the concept of “spiritedness”.’ Strange that your dictionary didn’t have that definition.

          • Concerned on June 22, 2012 at 3:33 pm

            Rather, wikipedia ALSO states that definition:

          • Jedi on June 22, 2012 at 3:42 pm

            concerned……. we are splitting hares

            things said 2000 years ago are not the same “meaning” as today

            carry on with your excellent research.

          • legioXIV on June 24, 2012 at 4:11 pm

            “Actually, the Thracians were considered BARBARIANS by the Greeks (and the Macedonians were for a long time considered borderline barbarian).”

            Actually the Greeks considered any people who did not converse in Greek or follow Greek customs to be barbarians or barbaroi. The word Barbarian itself comes from a Greek ridicule of the languages of others. To them it sounded like all they were saying was “bar bar” or in its modern equivalence “bla bla”.

            The Greeks used the designation barbarian for everyone else, including the Romans and the Persians, two peoples who were civilization builders par excellence.

          • legioXIV on June 24, 2012 at 4:20 pm

            I would agree with that Mattb. Spartacus’s army was composed of mostly Italic slaves with a hardcore element of the remnants of the Italic legions who contested the Social War (in particular the Samnite legions).

            Any cohesive organization and tactics used by the rebel army would have come from these veteran elements (Spartacus himself has been reported to have served in the auxiliary army).

            If the so called Ayran tribes of the Belgae, Celtae, Cimbri and Cherusci were civilization builders par excellence then how is it they were incorporated as provinces of Rome and not the other way round?

        • legioXIV on June 24, 2012 at 4:05 pm

          I would suggest an investigation as to why Publius Cornelius Tacitus wrote the “Germania” the way he did, especially in relation to his other works. Was he extolling the virtues of the Germanic tribes or was he merely using some aspects of them as a foil for a subliminal commentary on his own people?

  8. HAL838 on June 21, 2012 at 11:26 am

    It a bit unreal that Africa seems to be the only continent
    devoid of evidence for previous, pre-ancient and very
    advanced civilization (?)
    Just musing

    • MattB on June 26, 2012 at 5:02 pm

      Pyramind? Sphinx? Nabta Playa? Dogon?

      I think Australia takes that award Hal838. The First Australians have plenty of prehistoric stories with giants, wars, rainbow coloured civilising creatures etc. To date however , no known paleoancient artefacts……that we know of.

      This is actually quite a mystery, especially considering the fact that the First Australians have to oldest civilisation in the world with the oldest language group in the world-which was almost entirely uninterrupted from outside influences.

      I suspect there are ‘things’ out there………

  9. MattB on June 21, 2012 at 5:28 am

    Who let the KKK guy onto the forum?

    Scholars have been pointing for years towards the heart of Africa in terms of foundations for some civilisations. Bernal, Bauval, Brophy, Diop and others have demonstrated time and time again that central Africa has been the origin for many astronomical, linguistic and technological ideas that have permeated the Nile Valley, Greece and parts of Europe. To deny the weight of this scholarship and the hellfire these people have unjustly received for their work is pure ignorance.

    You also have the Dogon enigma and the arguments surrounding that culture and the interpretation of the internal mechanism of their mythologies. Brophy argued very strongly (and Dr Farrell correctly picks up on these ideas) for a very old, high knowledge of astronomy and celestial mechanics via the Nabta Playa complex.

    To ignore this material for the sake of ‘whiteness’ is simply moronic.

    • legioXIV on June 21, 2012 at 2:38 pm

      Nicely done Matt. nicely done. I fully agree.

    • Concerned on June 21, 2012 at 5:07 pm

      RE: Martin Bernal’s book “Black Athena — The Afroasiatic Roots of Classical Civilization”: it is pseudo-scholarship. It is absurd.

      Mary Lefkowitz (an actual scholar) provides an excellent demolition of Bernal’s propaganda (which MattB has referred to).

      • MattB on June 22, 2012 at 12:46 am

        Once again-nonsense!

        Bernal annihilated Lefkowitz’ ‘alliance’ in his 2001 ‘Black Athena Writes back’. He systematically pulls apart each of his critics and shows the ‘ad hominem’, fallacious arguments and weak assertions made by his opponents. He does this in a very scholarly and sophisticated manner-unlike Lefkowitz who was quite happy to launch a smear campaign in order to denigrate the man and his work.

        Bernal is far from pseudo-scholarship and has been proven correct on many accounts. His linguistic methodology is excellent as his notion of ‘competitive plausibility’ is a very logical premise from which to argue. Bernal demonstrated conclusively that classics was dominated by hundreds of years of racism-a fact NOT CONTENDED by his opposition.

        Bauval and Brophy have demonstrated the highly sophisticated astroarchaeological culture that moved from central and sub-saharan Africa into the Nile Valley and formed a major component for the development of Old Kingdom Dynastic Egypt.

        As for ‘actual scholar’-try this:
        1957 Matriculated King’s College, Cambridge.
        1958 1st class Honours in the Preliminary Examination to the Oriental Tripos. Elected to the John Price Minor scholarship.
        1960 Diploma of Chinese language, Peking University. Distinction in Oral Chinese, Cambridge.
        1961 1st class Honours, Oriental Tripos, pt. II.
        Elected to the Augustus Austin Leigh Studentship.
        1962 Harkness Commonwealth Fellowship.
        1963 Graduate Student at the University of California (Berkeley) invited to join PSA.
        1964 Graduate Student at Harvard.
        1965 Prize Fellow of King’s College Cambridge University.
        1966 Ph.D. Oriental Studies at Cambridge University.
        1972 Associate Professor in the Department of Government, Cornell University. 1984 Adjunct Professor of Near Eastern Studies, Cornell University.
        1987 Mellon ‘Folding Chair.’ for Interdisciplinary Teaching at Cornell University.
        1988 Full Professor in the Department of Government, Cornell University.
        2001 Retired, Professor Emeritus, Cornell University.

        I’m quite sure that qualifies as ‘actual scholar’.

        • Concerned on June 22, 2012 at 2:57 am

          Bernal is an ideologue and not a Classicist. His arguments are pathetic and his later book was also baseless. Mary Lefkowitz is a Classicist and destroyed his arguments. Lefkowitz wrote a further book on this, “History Lesson” (2008), which revealed the hypocrisies of the Afrocentrists and the absurd extent they go to to give blacks a history to be proud of.

        • Edelweiss on July 3, 2012 at 5:51 am

          MattB – it’s about time for you to give it up man. You’ve been thoroughly schooled on this forum. Take your beating like a man and retreat before it gets any more embarrassing for you.

  10. Concerned on June 21, 2012 at 3:18 am

    There were races, such as the Neanderthals (origin of the “Semites”), which predated the supposed journey out of Africa.

    • legioXIV on June 24, 2012 at 4:36 pm

      Considering that the vast majority of Neanderthal remains have been found in Western Europe and not in the Middle East I do not see how this computes.
      I had always thought Neanderthals were an extinct species of human.

  11. Tim on June 20, 2012 at 10:25 pm

    “…undeniably indicate that non-African people, bearers of haplogroups from C to T, did not descend from the “African” haplogroups A or B.”

    I bet there is even a name for these special non-African races! I know, Aryans!

    Seriously, haven’t we already played this game before?

    • Concerned on June 21, 2012 at 3:02 am

      What do you mean? What game? Communicate clearly.

    • legioXIV on June 21, 2012 at 2:36 pm

      Yes Tim, well said.
      We have played this game before and unfortunately it looks like we will do so again. Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it.

  12. Concerned on June 20, 2012 at 8:01 pm

    Also funny looking on youtube at blacks’ comments about civilizations.

    If blacks are such great civilization builders, then why do blacks always look north of the Sahara for evidence of blacks creating civilizations? 😉

    • Jay on June 21, 2012 at 5:35 am

      So you’re not familiar with the location of Ethiopia?

      • Jedi on June 25, 2012 at 6:11 am

        perhaps what happened in Haiti, Rhodesia, Detroit and for that matter Asia, and Ethiopia. The American natives, er Chinese, are awaiting the return of the great white brother.
        you are familiar with the concept of slaves, serfs rebelling against the hand that feeds it only to live in dispair, poverty and in a desolate desert.
        At the end of the last supper comes a desert….preferably with a big red cherry too pop on it and a cuppa of cafe of course for the last big bang.

        • Jay on June 25, 2012 at 2:01 pm

          And what were the tribes in what is called Germany waiting for in the year 800 BCE when Ethiopia was a civilization?

          Jedi, you’re just a typical ill informed uninquisitive racist. Not unlike “Concerned”.

          • MattB on June 25, 2012 at 4:36 pm

            Well said Jay, well said!

          • Jedi on June 25, 2012 at 4:53 pm

            Thanks for the name calling, you know when you speak ill of others you speak of your self. So sad, maybe knock off the flouride although it is irrevesible…anyways…werent you the guy giving out math lessons…lol.

            And those tribes would of been over in Asia, you know the Dyzan-Chan-Khan or Dan…you know the guy with red hair and green eye…ole Ghenkis Khan…his grandson Kulbai Khan.

            The purple dawn of civilization ring any bells there?

          • legioXIV on June 25, 2012 at 8:02 pm

            “are you really that stupid or just more sophistry nonsense?”

            Now what was that about someone who speaks ill of others?

          • Jedi on June 25, 2012 at 9:27 pm

            merely an observation from one blessed by the divine

          • Jay on June 26, 2012 at 4:49 am


            Math first, yep and I corrected my point and you’d know that if you were paying attention. (i to the fourth results in real number, so in fact it is possible to easily say that reality can come from the imaginary.)

            Now some problems with your claims about Ghenkis Khan: He was a civilizer? Huh? Also he was doing his “civilizing” in 800 BCE? Huh? (That’s 800 years before the common era–aka BC, or 2900 hundred years ago).

            Do you not know that Ethiopia is in Africa?

            And since you assert Turks did all of the civilizing in China–I didn’t know about them bringing in printing presses.

          • Jedi on June 26, 2012 at 5:38 am

            ….how did I stumble into Platos cave?

            With all due respect perhaps avoid replying to my posts, I cant be bothered correcting you,

          • Jay on June 26, 2012 at 5:53 am


            If you can’t see how imaginary becoming real relates to Plato’s cave, you’re an unlearned jedi.

          • Jedi on June 26, 2012 at 7:39 am

            there are those who know, who have been shown, who do not take the leap of faith but rather are guided by a divine force, a light, it is quite amazing …then there are those, who are divided, lost sheep who have beliefs in whatever is in front of your noses and change them which ever way the wind blows.

            Elvis sang about it, only fools rush in.

            The metaphor of Jesus on the cross, he is not on the cross, he walked away and said to the slaves who condemned him, where I go you cannot follow. , the slaves condemned themselves, ie they are up on the cross with a crown of weeds, in hell.

            Born through the fire, and rebirthed through the source of life and wham while you are alive…with the king of kings, the lord of lords… brothers who art in heaven.

            Heaven is on earth.

  13. Hal Hichler on June 20, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    Fascinatingly, some scientists claim that when white people are immersed in sensory deprivation tanks for long periods, their circadian rhythm has a frequency of 24 hours 40 minutes, which corresponds not to the rotational period of the Earth, but of Mars. This is not the case with non-white races that are in tune with the Earth’s rotation.

  14. sk on June 20, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    So, whatever is true, it’s still true, that trying to GENOCIDE the White race is very wrong.

    • george wells on June 20, 2012 at 4:54 pm

      So true.
      White birth rate too low to replace itself. Coupled with immigrants with high birth rate. When you add those together, what do you get?
      Overtime its no white people. It’s just a matter of time, if white people don’t wake up.

      • Concerned on June 20, 2012 at 6:57 pm

        Goldman, Rothschild, Ben Shalom Bernanke, and other banksters are determined to destroy Aryans.

        Aryans are the parasites’ main enemy. Don’t think, if you are of another race, that the parasites won’t try and destroy you either. If the parasites succeed in destroying the Aryan race then they will go after you as well.

  15. Johnycomelately on June 20, 2012 at 3:11 pm

    The archeologist Virginia Steen McIntyre was shunned by the establishment when she discovered an archeological dig in Mexico that proved human habitation 250000 years ago. Apparently she lost her job when she refused to back down from her assertions.

    The good Dr is right in that there is definitely more to the story than the establishment is letting on.

  16. marcos anthony toledo on June 20, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    More egg in the face of the scientific establishment concerning human origins.

  17. Robert Barricklow on June 20, 2012 at 10:47 am

    There has been purposeful manipulation in my mind’s eye. From my readings the “public” science has a manufactured aspec t to it. I had known this in the other sciences, especially as they have become more & more corporatized, and thus compromised for the best of reasons: the profit god(above the supply & demand gods in rank).
    What had taken me aback, was the anthropolical sciences, have been manipulated as well. Dr farrell’s work brought this into the light for me.
    There is something amiss in hu – man DNA.
    But when, where & how?

    • Jedi on June 20, 2012 at 11:09 am

      perhaps some reverse engineering might help with this game….

      look above the W on your key board
      23 yes.
      multiply it by 2
      46 chromozones makes you a man.
      subtract 2 god brothers…

      King Khans cong show and the host is with the CIA

      elements my dear Watts son.

      • Robert Barricklow on June 20, 2012 at 12:57 pm

        There is method to madness. And indeed I use the term madness, in that mankind has seemingly, as a whole, gone mad with a sequential privatised money system that is nothing short of cancerous as expressed by the “Earth’s Health”.
        The question therein lies an alien purpose that would be, if not in the twilight zone of thinking, than in a “blindspot”. Perhaps not purposely engineered so, but implicit in it’s “alieness”.
        Thus method to madness is indeed there; but to what purpose, if indeed there exists one.

        • Jedi on June 20, 2012 at 8:55 pm

          2 to the power of 25.

          • Robert Barricklow on June 21, 2012 at 8:18 am

            I’am google-plexed.

          • Jedi on June 21, 2012 at 10:39 am

            the good, the beautiful and the intelligent will no longer be punished anymore until further notice.

          • Robert Barricklow on June 23, 2012 at 8:30 am

            The light at the end of the tunnel is a hologram.

  18. Jedi on June 20, 2012 at 6:29 am

    The sand man said the proof would be in the pudding, thank goodness for mummy.

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