THE PERSECUTION, THE PATRIACH, AND LAST AND LEAST, THE POPE
This story was the subject of much discussion in last Friday's members' vidchat, and then, after the end of that event, many people sent me this version of the story from Russia's Sputnik site, and there's much food for thought here.
But first, I'd like to put all my cards on the table, and explain the title of today's blog, and why I am emphasizing the Papacy last, and least in the headline, and it is not simply because of my long association in the past with Eastern Orthodoxy, but that is part of it. It has always bothered me - perhaps intensely - that the modern secular West seems almost viscerally afraid of Eastern Orthodox cultures, and especially, of Russia. One person sent me a version of this story from a website, and the title of the article said it all: "Humble Pope To Meet Scandallous Patriarch," meaning of course, Patriarch Kryil of Moscow. The scandal here concerns criticism of Kyril's rather lavish lifestyle that has occurred in Russia. Whether true or not, it was an attitude that I've seen before, as long ago as my professorial days teaching medieval history, when one of my textbooks had a chapter (only one chapter!) devoted to covering the Byzantine Empire and the Islamic Middle Ages, in a chapter somewhat rudely and dismissively titled "Europe's Neighbors." The meaning was clear: "Europe" meant the societies that emerged from the Christian West, i.e., the from the Latin Church and Papacy; the East remained an inscrutable reliquary, not worth studying in depth and comparing to the West, and this was particularly the case in the study of the major differences in theological formulation - and yes, the differences between the two churches are major, and not minor - that lead to major differences in church government, piety, and ultimately the cultures that emerged in each case.
But there's another operative factor here, and that is what happened at the Second Vatican Council held in the 1960s under the pontificates of John XXIII (Angelo Cardinal Roncalli) and his successor Paul VI(Giovanni Cardinal Montini). Without getting into the gory details of the Second Vatican Council, for all intentions and purposes virtually every classical formulation of Roman Catholic teaching was abandoned for a stew of platitudinous pronouncements, especially on relationships to other religious bodies, including Islam. The only "traditional" language that remained was the language concerning definitions of papal claims, power, and prerogative, and these would would have pleased a Pius IX (Giovanni-Maria Cardinal Mastai-Ferreti), who succeeded in having the papacy proclaimed infallible at the First Vatican Council in 1870-71. (And, for the record, there was significant opposition at this council and after it to the definition, though the opposition ultimately failed. But that's another story.)
Under this new "ecumenical" outlook, a whole host of "dialogues" with the Islamic world was initiated; dialogues that have, to this day, not succeeded in seeing any Christian churches opened in Saudi Arabia, and which have produced no ameliorations of the second-hand status of non-Mulsims in many Islamic societies, and which, to the contrary, have presided over a period of increasing persecution of Christians - be they Roman Catholic, Orthodox Catholic, Coptic, Nestorian, or Armenian - in the Islamic world. To put it bluntly, but plainly, it has been a stellar, and stunning, record of failure. But after all, it is difficult to negotiate with an unreconstructed ideology of warfare against ... well, against just about everybody that isn't Islamic.As the former Muslim and scholar Ibn Warraq put it, the Islamic world needs not just a Reformation, but an Enlightenment. To the Vatican's credit, however, Pope John Paul II did warn that American unipolarism and intervention in Iraq would spiral out of control, and lead to increasing persecution of Christians. His foresight has proven to be the case.
Which is why I find recent pronouncements from the Vatican so very interesting from this ecumenical-historical point of view, for Vatican spokesmen, including Pope Francis I himself, have made it clear, that Christians have the right of self-defence under the conditions that the old compact of their tolerance under otherwise reprehensible regimes of Saddam Hussein or, yes, a Bashar Al-Assad or Hosni Mubarek, has been broken.
In that rather broad context, then, consider this article on the meeting to take place between Russian Orthodox Catholic Patriach of Moscow, Kyril, and Roman Catholic Pope Francis, in, of all places, Havana Cuba:
Orthodox, and Roman, Catholic Leader meeting Vital to Protect Christians
What I found intriguing about Sputnik's take here is that the purpose of the meeting clearly is to discuss the persecution of Christians, which has reached epic proportions in the Middle East and Africa, with little being said by Western leaders. The choice of Havana itself is interesting, since Cuba is, of course, a largely Roman Catholic country, with a long history of association with Russia during the Cold War, making it difficult to ascertain if this meeting and its venue was largely a Vatican initiative, or that of the Patriarchate of Moscow. My intuition says that this was perhaps a bit of both, and that it has been in long quiet preparation.
In any case, it's tremendous grist for the mill of our high octane speculation, for what does it really portend? I suspect, and suspect strongly, that it portends a huge geopolitcal shift is in the offing, and that religion, or if you will, "Christian civilization" is the cover behind which it is being engineered. It is this factor that makes me suspect that Russia and the Moscow Patriarchate played more than a merely passive or respondent role to Vatican initiatives, for if this analysis be true, then we can expect any statement or statements to come from this meeting to do two things: (1) to emphasize the need for honest dialogue with the Islamic world, and not just a perpetual capitulation of the Christian to the Islamic worlds. In other words, expect the usual platidudinous ecumenical flannel, but lurking behind it, a subtle but nonetheless discernible change in tone behind the warm fuzzies and group hugs. (2) But I also suspect, if not in any initial statements, then in future "clarifications" both from Moscow and Rome, that it will be made clear that this right of Christians in the region to self-defense in the face of brutal, medieval, and barbaric persecution, that this right extends and is to be understood to include economic security, equal status before the law, and ultimately, the right to use force or to request military assistance - perhaps in the guise of "international peacekeeprs" - to secure those conditions. One can also look forward to some subtle, but firm, opposition both from the Russian government, the Moscow Patriarchate, and the Vatican, to you-know-who's not-so-subtle attempts to introduce "anti-blasphemy provisions" against its religion at the U.N., an effort that undermines the most fundamental condition of any free society: free speech.
This sweeping geopolitical and cultural change - if this "high octane reading" be true - also signals something else, and it is equally as significant as the meeting itself. When Jorge Cardinal Bergolio was elected and took the name Francis for his pontificate, I suggested that perhaps this was a signal that the Vatican powers-that-be in the Curia were recognizing, at long last, that the center of Roman Catholicism had shifted from its historical home in Europe and the First World, to the second and third worlds, and that it was thus to be considered a "bridge" papacy to a relignment, more openly, with those worlds. While the Vatican will continue to be intertwined, financially, with the West for some time to come, make no mistake, meeting with the Patriarch of Moscow may also signal that shift of orientation.
If any of these predications and speculations are true, then we can expect them to be borne out, slowly.
Time, of course, will tell if all these high octane speculations and predictions are true or not. But whether they are or are not, the meeting itself, and its venue in Cuba - a country with its own track record of religious persecutions - is significant enough. To put it country simple, I suspect that the venue's choice was deliberately chosen by both churches to emphasize that they mean business.
See you on the flip side...
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“An Insight Into Orthodox Christianity: Interview with The Saker”
by Katherine Frisk for the ‘International reporter’
“Just over a year ago I had little to no understanding of Orthodox Christianity, the Russian Orthodox Church, it’s history or how it differed from the West.”
thesaker dot is/an-insight-into-orthodox-christianity-interview-with-the-saker/
Why would the west bother “feeling” for christians murdered in the muslim world, they are mostly orthodox so not the same herd.
I have no problem with God but every problem with Yawism. It is the most evil invention ever and devoutness/devilishness comes roled in one package. Catholics/Protestants/Muslism and all derevitives do nothing else but pillage, rage and murder in name off. History is full of their exploits up to today.
I am not waiting for a overhaul so old wine turns up in new bottles, I am frankly sick and tired of it and don’t believe in reformations. In this setup the beast can rear its ungly head any time like its supposed to on demand of the same parasites. That is what needs to stop, the commonor being willing puppets thru a beliefsystem.
I know next to nothing of Orthodoxy and Russia seems very tired of the millennnia old gameplan run amok so I give them the benefit of the daubt. But I still think the best course of action if you want to converse/honor God, do so, no intermediaries required.
Neru: ‘I know next to nothing of Orthodoxy and Russia seems very tired of the millennnia old gameplan run amok…’
You brought up an unsettling scenario. What if Orthodoxy-based Russian leadership decided to take-out only the ‘gameplayers’? Thus, ending ‘the game’…
The old Don Corleone ‘move’ come to mind, where he took-out all the other mob bosses in one bold stroke. This would range from taking out entire ‘districts’ to removal of individuals. Worldwide. Then sit-back or ‘surrender’.
I wonder if Russia would have the foresight and the will not to ‘build Empire’ but to ‘remove Dons’…
that’s alotta dons
Looks like a modern version of the Crusades is about to occur? Although this one would not be by the Vatican against Islam and, by way of ignorance and bias, against Eastern Orthodox also as in the past; but by the Vatican and Orthodox Patriarch in concert against Jihadism for better reasons hopefully: that of simply guaranteeing basic human rights for Christians? (who are simply people, like everyone else) I hope some nefarious machiavellian plan does not underlie this alliance.
As an aside about ‘religion’: Beliefs do matter, as they lead to experiences, and then actions based on that experience. (delusional thinking also has it’s power as an ‘experience’ leading to action. So we must be careful in our thoughts and words. An overactive imagination can lead to harm. It is fun to speculate, but…verify. This is an attribute that I trust in Joseph’s work)
thank you daniel
Vatican = CIA= Nazis = South America.. second verse same as the first… don’t cry for me Argentina, the truth is I never left you! Heard a rumour that everything you see in the Vatican today is a replica. The originals including the library have been moved lock, stock and barrel to South America. Also include in this the gold hoards that were once kept in the catacombs.
who knows what they’re upto? yet.
wd, there’s way more proof than we guessed
enter giants into the search bar
that’s just one internet channel
church mouse. you probably have it.
marcos, please be nicer about the vikings.
sorry churchless mouse.
good call gail
I agree. Antediluvian history is far different than we have been lead to believe. If these people were who they are said to be and were taught secret/forbidden knowledge by their parents (fathers/fallen angels) that could account for a great many things. I imagine their cosmology/physics was quite a bit different from ours, for this reason alone. Buildings such as the pyramids/Baalbek would be no great challenge for beings such as these. Least we forget, the losers of that “War in Heaven” were confined to the earth.
If true, we have never been alone, have always known it, and that disclosure people seem to be so anxious for occurred in the distant past since, by definition, they would be “extraterrestrials”.
A biblical perspective can be found at:
When the Council of Nicea (325AD) were putting the Canon together and throwing-out whatever didn’t-suit or alarmed them (IN Constantine’s compound), one book truly got ‘purged’: ‘The Book of Enoch’. This was in spite of it being accepted as part of the ‘old wisdom’ for many centuries.
Subsequently, ‘The Book of Enoch’ was ‘extincted’ from Western culture. No copy was to be found outside of deeply-hidden Church archives. Gone. It had to be rediscovered a thousand years later in far-off lands. An unparalleled ‘purge’ of a once-popular Book…
What was so scary about ‘The Book of Enoch’? That ‘offworlders’ (take it any way you please) of advanced nature ‘came down’ and educated/ruled ordinary humans. Very detailed and internally-consistent ‘testimony’ by a witness and ‘abductee’, Enoch. Hard to refute.
So, the Church (West and East) has known about ‘offworlders’ for a long time. In 325AD, they chose to do the first ‘suppression’ of this knowledge, and that has been their ‘position’ ever since. It has only been ‘outsiders’ that have kept this knowledge alive. ALL present-day Church Elders have to be up to their eyeballs in this ‘suppression’.
One wonders why this was so necessary for Christians. After all, nobody tried to ‘extinct’ similar Books of the Hindu tradition…
Maybe becouse that was any time eastern religion? It seems TPTB wanted to separate east from west on many different ways
The BIG problem with the Book Of Enoch is that gasp, it was one of the oldest written texts and even more gasp, it came from Ethiopia, gasp, Black! It did not come from Sumeria. The big issue between west and east in the Middle East was that Ancient Egypt was gasp, Nubian, black. Sumaria was Semite. After constant invasions over a period of 5,000 years, by the time of the Romans Egypt was subjugated and the north became a mix of Semite, Armneian, Greek and Roman. While the Egyptians, Nubians moved further and further south. Also one of the reasons that the Great Library of Alexandria was destroyed. One of the reasons was their wealth, tons of gold. King Tuts tomb is a brief glimmer.This bias still exists today. The book of Enoch appears to me to be describing not “Aliens”but invaders from the east and north, and how they saw them. And how destructive they were and totally “alien”to Nubian society. Nothing has changed very much has it?
Gail, I think you are overlooking the parts in ‘The Book of Enoch’ where Enoch was taken-up in a ‘whirlwind’ and describes the terrain he was looking down-on. Two or three times, if I remember correctly, with one of the ‘offworlders’ as pilot or at least ‘conveyor’. Perhaps you are remembering some other Book?
(Ralph Ellis writes about how the Hyksos – the Shepherd King culture – systematically defiled earlier tombs by stripping them of valuables. According to Ellis, it was not random grave-robbing – as orthodox Egyptologists would have us believe – but a methodical looting authorized from the top down. An Aries-based religion preying on the wealth of a Taurus-based religion. When regular Egyptians got fed-up with this behavior, the Hyksos got kicked-out of Egypt in a big religious war. So yes, the very-late King Tut’s tomb was the merest shadow of Taurus-culture funerary wealth.)
This sort of dialogue was also predicted as prelude to the proposed Nicea III Ecumenical Council in 2025. https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/blog/nicea-iii-2025
I have loved history all my life. But before I read a science fiction novel “Least Darkness Fall” by L. Spargue DeCamp. I had had not paid attention to the history of Byzantium after I read that book I began to read more of the history of society. Unfortunately our overlords seem to be planning to concoct a murderous brew of Fascist Militant Islam Corporate Fascism and probably Satanism thrown in for good measure. The two major branch’s of Christianity see that if they don’t hang together they will hang separately and that the Viking raiders that rule from London-Washington DC are planning to throw them under the bus or onto the tracks before a oncoming train.
I couldn’t figure out why the west and the Vatican sat by idly while Middle eastern Christians were being murdered until I realized it was likely because they were Eastern Orthodox. Perhaps with their failure to infiltrate and influence Putin to the degree they would like they may sense an opportunity through the Patriach. If they can foment a more direct conflict between Muslims and Eastern Orthodox nations then they may be able to regain control of Russia and weaken Eastern Orthodox populations during the conflict. I can imagine they were not very happy to see a resurgence of Eastern Orthodox in Russia after they spent so much time and effort to eradicate it during the Bolshevik Revolution. Some say the real power behind the thrones, political and financial institutions still lay in Rome Italy and that they are in the habit of destroying every empire they build to start a new one somewhere else. Some suspect the new Holy Roman Empire will be centered between Russia and China but first they got to replace that pesky Putin. I suspect it will be South America and or New Zealand but who knows. Many layers to the onion of deceit.
So do they plan to radicalize and militarize Christians next? Sounds like history may be repeating itself again. I hope the Christians are able to resist radicalization to the extent that they don’t start burning suspected witches and blasphemers again. Time will tell, this may just be the next planned phase to end both Christianity and Islam for good getting ready to be rolled out on schedule. Depends on if the religious institutions are still dominated by closet Luciferians I suppose.
Well said roger luciferians they are
Interesting thread of ideas, but we shouldn’t conflate the myriad ‘Christian’traditions into one. The ‘burning suspected witches and blasphemers’ was more of a Western (read: Protestant-Roman Catholic) phenomenon than Eastern Orthodox (Russia, et al).
As Joseph indicated, Orthodoxy is a very different story (and that’s another story..)
A number of faiths have the market-speak exclusivity clause that monopolizes their viewpoints. When monetized they become bullets and missiles to enforce their fundamentalism. This market approach includes ALL religions, including the individualized isms like neoliberalism, neoconservatism, market fundamentalism, etc., etc.
Of course self defense[like the 2nd amendment’s owning guns].
Translation/don’t let the status quo roll you over in your grave.
Spreading to the third would like all the isms, including the zika virus?
Free speech? I think it’s a good idea and the world should try it.
There of. Course is the other aspect of geopolitics. The seeming intention on the part of the Anglo Saxon to generate west, to pursue re-casting Russia as the new geopolitical enemy.
The choice of Cuba is most instructive. Of course Cuba was the location for the clash of superpowers that almost resulted in the termination of life on earth. Remember that we were within the decision cycle of three people embedded in a submarine who were being depth charged by the Navy, and we almost came to nuclear blows but for the sanity of the Russian political officer.
The third thing that might be going on revolves around money. It’s clear that the Fiat currency’s of the west are worthless. It’s worse than the continental. Is the Vatican and the Russian church working behind the scenes, as evidenced by the Vatican’s bringing in Arthur Andersen to fix their books, to create a new monetary order, in the Jubilee year announced by the pope last season?
They’re discussing ‘The Cousins’ and disclosure.
Those “genetic cousins” may the offspring of those beings who “from Heaven to earth came” and interbred with human females, in effect, fallen Angels, if you go by biblical implications. If that is the case, then disclosure occurred in the distant past when they arrived and produced a race of giant offspring.
The fact that giants once walked the earth is documented in the archeological records (despite the fact that this has been suppressed by various museums and those discoveries have been either destroyed or buried in their archives never again to see the light of day) and in ancient texts and oral traditions.
I’m not speaking of the dinosaurs here, but extremely large human/”other” hybrids who were, by all accounts, extremely “evil” in their habits and who would return to the earth at some future time.
Time will tell