This is an intriguing story that many of you, including T.S. and E.G. spotted, so in thanking them for sharing it we're actually thanking all the rest of you who did as well.  In fact, this story, it is safe to say, has been percolating in my in-boxes for the last couple of  weeks, and I've been sort of waiting for a version of it to come along which I think highlights the basic philosophical problems of modern (western) archaeology, historiography, and chronology.  The story concerns that large pyramid in Gunung Padang, Indonesia, and it's well worth pondering how western historians, archaeologists, and other academics are dealing with it:

‘World’s oldest pyramid' built 25,000 years ago was not made by humans, archaeologists claim

The claim for the pyramid is being made by an Indonesian archaeologist, who is arguing that a certain layer of the structure is quite quite old and clearly worked, showing signs of being dressed, and fitted:

While Guinness World Records officially lists the Djoser Step pyramid in Egypt as the world’s oldest pyramid (around 2,630 BC), one paper published in October claimed a layer of the Gunung Padang pyramid in Indonesia was constructed as far back as 25,000 BC – though there has since been doubts as to whether the structure was ever man-made at all.

In research led by Danny Hilman Natawidjaja of the Indonesian Institute of Sciences, and published in the journal Archaeological Prospection, the academics write that “the pyramid’s core consists of meticulously sculpted massive andesite lava” and that the “oldest construction” element of the pyramid “likely originated as a natural lava hill before being sculpted and then architecturally enveloped”.

They write: “This study sheds light on advanced masonry skills dating back to the last glacial period. This finding challenges the conventional belief that human civilisation and the development of advanced construction techniques emerged only … with the advent of agriculture approximately 11,000 years ago.

Note that the Indonesians are not maintaining that the pyramid was "not man-made" but rather - heresy of heresies to the modern western quackademic chronology - that it is far older,  and showing signs of skill that only developed "much later," according to that same quackademic narrative.   In fact, the Indonesians are maintaining something far more important, namely, that in certain regions of the world, the presence of complex megalithic structures can only mean that the people who built them were not following yet another dictate of the quackademic chronology in that they did not stop hunting and gathering, and then started argriculture, and only then decided it was much better to live in cities, build big buildings, and so on:

“Evidence from Gunung Padang and other sites, such as Gobekli Tepe [in Turkey], suggests that advanced construction practices were already present when agriculture had, perhaps, not yet been invented.”

Note the implicit bow to that quackademic narrative in the bow to the idea that agriculture "had, perhaps, not yet been invented."  or perhaps was organized very differently, or perhaps that foot was being imported, or "hunting and gathering" were organized on an "industrial scale".  Who knows for certain?  Answer (if one is honest): no one.

Needless to say, quackademia has weighed in with the usual "counter-'arguments'", and these, I'm afraid I must say, as they stand, are really a wondrous thing to behold; they remind me in a way of the sort of "reasoning" one encounters in that bastion of British brainpower, Philomena Cunk:

Flint Dibble, from Cardiff University, told the journal Nature that there is no clear evidence to suggest the buried layers were built by humans.

“Material rolling down a hill is going to, on average, orient itself,” he said, adding that there’s no evidence of “working or anything to indicate that it’s man-made”.

Meanwhile, Bill Farley, an archaeologist at Southern Connecticut State University, is credited as saying “the 27,000-year-old soil samples from Gunung Padang, although accurately dated, do not carry hallmarks of human activity, such as charcoal or bone fragments”.

So we are safe to conclude that the Indonesian archaeologists have correctly dated soil samples and so on, but are to question their conclusion that the site necessitates a "rethink" of chronology because no charcoal or bone fragments were found (an "argument" that I find breathtaking for its disclosure of the wretched state of modern western quackademia).  We know, for example, that bone fragments and other detritus has been found around the pyramids in Egypt, including the two giant pyramids of Giza.  From this, Egyptology has given us the silly picture of Egyptians dressing and fitting the stones by copper hand saws, diorite slurry, ropes, pulleys, ramps, and so on. In other words, the  "chronology" has been assumed and the explanation of the construction methods and means has been developed from that. In the case of Gunung Padang, indications of possible dressing and fitting is being ignored because "it's too early and the site if too old" and there are "no remains of charcoal nor of bones" which would have been "left over from the primitive camps and cooking fires that were no doubt left by the humans who did not have the skills to build it at the time, and ergo it could not have been built by humans. And since we "know" no one else was around at the time, they couldn't have built it either... and therefore this may look like a ruined pyramid but it's just a coincidental pile of rocks."
Uh huh...
Now all of that may eventually be proven to be true. Maybe even the entire western quackademic chronological narrative may eventually be proven to be true, and the problems raised by "Vedic archaeologists" like Richard Thompson or Michael Cremo (or the problems raised by Vedic chronology and lore in general) will go away.
Or we can  realize that the evidence is growing, and becoming very difficult to ignore, that the narrative of a young humanity and young civilization might not be the case, and that something much older and far more complex might be the case.  If someone was building pyramids in Indonesia 25,000 years ago, than that cannot help but impact the narrative: why were they doing so, why are pyramids such a universal structure-type on Earth for so many disparate cultures? Why were they really built? Who built them?   If Gunung Padang be viewed from the perspective indicated by the questions, then those questions highlight in turn the wobbly nature of the standard academic narrative.  And more importantly, how did they build it? The absence of bones and charcoal might thus mean only that the means and methods were far more sophisticated than the standard chronology would allow.
Let's  hope the Indonesian archaeologists hold fast to their guns, and call the "counter-arguments" as outlined in this article, what they really are: a case of assuming what is to be proven, in order to dismiss the unpleasant questions.
See you on the flip side...

Joseph P. Farrell

Joseph P. Farrell has a doctorate in patristics from the University of Oxford, and pursues research in physics, alternative history and science, and "strange stuff". His book The Giza DeathStar, for which the Giza Community is named, was published in the spring of 2002, and was his first venture into "alternative history and science".

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  1. Nidster - on December 13, 2023 at 6:47 pm

    The Indonesian pyramid that has been dated to about 25,000 years old is relatively young when compared to what scientists have discovered in Antartica’s Lake Vostok. Only recently more than 3,500 unique gene sequences have been identified in Lake Vostok which is an underground Antarctic water reservoir. The lake has been isolated from the atmosphere for an estimated 15 million years. The complex ecosystem of Lake Vostok is far beyond anything the Quackademics teach to the ‘skulls-full-of-mush sitting in their university classes. RT World News, and search “Lake Vostok mysteries: Biologists find over 3,500 life forms in isolated Antarctic basin”.

  2. Brendan on December 12, 2023 at 11:18 pm

    when you have a character like Philomena Cunk making more sense than quackademia you have to start wondering …

  3. anakephalaiosis on December 12, 2023 at 7:21 am

    1. In Quackademia, uniforms are worn on the inside, and, by eating the wormy fruit of knowledge, man becomes unknown to himself, because, by using enemy terminology, he looses himself, in a room of mirrors, and then he gains a diploma, attesting to his own Stockholm syndrome.

    2. Tacitus called the British adaptation, into Roman civilization, a measure of servitude (enslavement), and, when Spartacus has been swallowed, and he is being held captive, inside the belly of the beast, he needs a knife – engraved with runes – to cut himself a way out of the imperial monster.

    3. When the proto-Scythians were deported, and placed into a reservation, by the Assyrian empire, and subjugated by MKUltra, to uproot and alienate them, into loss of identity, with the intent of producing servile subjects, who could be used as blindfolded mercenaries, then they escaped up north through Caucasus.

    4. When the Assyrian loyalists, by Roman mandate, gained an upper hand, on the proto-Scythian descendants in Jerusalem, and had them subjugated by MKUltra, to uproot and alienate them, into loss of identity, with the intent of producing servile subjects, then the proto-Scythian descendants escaped to Britain.

    5. When cattle-transported Europeans, brought to the New World as papal freedom-slaves, became subjugated by MKUltra, to uproot and alienate them, into loss of identity, with the intent of producing servile subjects, in a Roman Catholic slave camp, to boost an empire, then they escaped across the Bering Strait.

    6. In a compass-based ideology, pyramid is always king, because the pyramid defines major directions, as corners of the world, and, further, the elevated cornerstone (capstone) defines the centre of the compass, from where all ways radiate, into every direction. The runes are basically a 32-point compass, used, as a means, to map man’s life cycle.

    The runes are a DIY recipe for gunpowder, and therefore subsequently banned in Quackademia.


    • anakephalaiosis on December 12, 2023 at 8:56 am


      Hooves of thundering ground,
      in drumbeating sound,
      of heartfelt ride
      was pride,
      breaking Assyrian bound.

      When horse and man are one,
      warfare is already won,
      as voice of land
      will stand,
      when all is said and done.

      Blessed, by his four feet friend,
      captivity came to an end,
      because wisdom
      in freedom,
      broken heart will mend.


  4. Robert Barricklow on December 12, 2023 at 12:31 am

    Quackademics really have no conceptualization of what “squaring the circle” entails.
    Do those who propagate dogmatic archeological narratives know…
    the truth will out them?

  5. marcos toledo on December 11, 2023 at 5:26 pm

    16000 to 25000 years old pyramid how about the foundation of a wood-built building close to 500000 years old in Africa? How long have humans and pre-humans been building building structures around the world?

    • Ray Story on December 17, 2023 at 1:04 am

      My thoughts as well. Our brain probably functions about the same now as a half million years ago biologically . Even some social insects build sophisticated dwellings plus stone cutting tools were evidently used in making that Zambian house frame.

  6. cobo on December 11, 2023 at 2:51 pm

    It’s like an itch you gotta scratch, them peer-o-mids. So, f-off to anyone dissing my wanting to build an obsidian pyramid on Mesa Redonda, just east, southeast of Tijuana. It will be there one day, whether I build it or not.

  7. Maria Clarke on December 11, 2023 at 11:35 am

    David Wengrow and David Graeber – The Dawn of Everything. A very good read and it does Not conform with the usual quackery.

  8. anakephalaiosis on December 11, 2023 at 6:33 am

    Today, giant stone structures are built, to harvest hydroelectric power, and, in ancient times, likewise, to harvest aeroelectric power.

    The idea of charging torchlight batteries, by taming a lightning strike, is a matter of finding right conduit and interface.

    Beer drinking, at the pub, does allow elemental possession, by thunder gods, which in return lights up the bulbs.

    Quackademia is a sobriety society of dry dullness, with a bottom-perspective, seen up, from self-dug holes.

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