Nazi International

WILL THE REAL ADOLF HITLER PLEASE DIE?

The most recent issue of NEXUS magazine (March-April 2008) concludes a captivating and thought-provoking three-part series of articles by independent Australian historian and researcher Giordan Smith questioning the whole accepted version of Hitler's last days in Berlin and his suicide. The question assumes some importance, in the light of the evidence and arguments that Mr. Smith presents, since I have argued in my two previous books on Nazi secret weapons, REICH OF THE BLACK SUN and THE SS BROTHERHOOD OF THE BELL, that the malevolent outlines of some sort of "Nazi International" may clearly be detected in the post-war West and Latin America. Moreover, in my new book due out in a few weeks, SECRETS OF THE UNIFIED FIELD: THE PHILADELPHIA EXPERIMENT, THE NAZI BELL, AND THE DISCARDED THEORY, I flesh out the outlines of a powerful triumverate at the top of this International consisting of SS Obergruppenfuehrers Heinrich "Gestapo" Mueller and Dr. Ing Hans Kammler, and Nazi Party Reichsleiter Martin Bormann. This triumverate, moreover, was the perfect combination to administer any ongoing Nazi International's continuing and independent post-war development of the exotic technologies the Nazi Regime had begun to investigate prior to and during the war, since the three represented a combination of security, administrative, and financial capabilities.

More recently, Richard C. Hoagland has provided yet another approach to the possibility of the continuance of the Nazi ideological and technological agenda with his book DARK MISSION: THE SECRET HISTORY OF NASA. And as I observed in my own first two books on Nazi secret weapons, the presence and power of this post-war Nazi International does provide a way to speculatively rationalize the degeneration of American culture and politics into increasingly Fascist avenues and mores. Similarly, it provides a method, as I outline in SS BROTHERHOOD OF THE BELL, of explaining and interpreting many of the odd events - otherwise inexplicable - towards the end of World War Two, up to, and beyond, the JFK assassination.

But as I also made clear in REICH OF THE BLACK SUN, I did not, at the time of writing that book, subscribe to the possibility of Adolf Hitler's survival and escape from Berlin. But Giordan Smith's NEXUS series, and particularly the final part, raises the stakes significantly enough that I now begin to entertain the idea, and ponder its broader implications. What if, after all, the chief himself DID survive? And if he did, what does it mean in terms of the Nazi International theory and its covert post-war power and influence?

Giordan's article in the current NEXUS begins by poiting out the one major sticking point in the post-war Allied standard history of Hitler's suicide, the version concocted largely by British intelligence and under the aegis of Hugh Trevor-Roper. The sticking point, quite bluntly, is the consistent post-war Soviet attitude of skepticism toward the whole "death of Hitler in Berlin" scenario. Noting that an American war correspondent in Berlin, one Joseph W. Grigg, announced on May 8, 1945, that Hitler's body had been found. But on May 10 the same Grigg reported that a further FOUR bodies, "blackened and charred, that seem to answer to Hitler's general appearance" were drug out of the ruins of the Reichschancellery(NEXUS, March-April 2008, p. 35). Ironically, this sounds remarkably similar to the four different versions of SS General Hans Kammler's death as I recounted in REICH OF THE BLACK SUN. Within another five days, Grigg reported that the number of possible Hitler corpses had risen to six, forcing Grigg to admit that the Soviets were beginning to despair of making any definite identification of a body, and thus to have any definite or conclusive evidence of the fact that Adolf Hitler had indeed died.

The Soviets, notes Smith, continued to insist that they were skeptical. None other than Marshal Zhukov himself admitted, in a press conference on June 9, 1945 attended by representatives of the British, French, and American press, that the Russians "had found no corpses which could be Hitler's." The marshal added that he considered it a definite possibility that Hitler had escaped Berlin by air. (NEXUS, p. 35) Adding to the Allies' problems were the fact that Stalin, as is well known, confided to various American delegates at the Potsdam Conference that he believed Hitler had escaped.

Compounding the difficulties represented by the Soviets, Smith also points out that, once they HAD decided on a set of corpses to identify as Adolf and Eva Hitler's, these were in turn buried and unburied no less than three times, once at an undisclosed location in Berlin, then moved to Finov in the Soviet Union, and then once again moved back to Germany and reburied in Rathenau. Even then the travelling corpses were not done, for they were exhumed once more and moved to Friedrichshafen. As Smith observes, "It would be hard to account for this macabre travelling show if the Soviets were sure that the bodiues they had found were really those of the Hitler couple." (NEXUS, p. 35)

The ultimate origins of the suicide interpretation, as Smith points out, were Hitler's chauffeur Erich Kempka, and Dr. Joseph Goebbels' second in command at the Propaganda Ministry, Dr. Fritzsche. As Smith notes, this places the whole suicide legend in yet another problematical light, for London and Washington, which had maintained throughout the war the view "that the Nazis were unconscionable liars" there was, as regards the suicide story - even when one of the sources was Goebbels' second in command! - a "dramatic shift away from scepticism". In other words, "any Nazi who claimed to know that Hitler had committed suicide never rished having his or her veracity impugned. Clearly, all Nazis were liars - except those who told the Allies what they wanted to hear." (p, 37)

As Smith points out, there are other significant problems with the suicide version as well, not the least of which is its most famous expositor: Hugh Trevor-Roper, the same Trevor-Roper who was taken in by the spurious Hitler diaries fraud in the 1980s (and really, does it seem REASONABLE that Adolf Hitler, busily running "his" war from his various headquarters with a micro-management style worthy of a modern globalist corporation towards its employees, would have time to keep a DIARY!?). In other words, Trevor-Roper's investigative skills do not, Smith implies, seem quite adequate to the task, the more so since he did not have access to any Fuehrerbunker survivors in Soviet capitivity, and was dependent on American summaries of interviews of detainees in their possesion. Here, observes Smith, Trevor-Roper seems to have been taken entirely by American fabrications of an interview with Hitler's famous test pilot, Hannah Reitsch. Indeed, Reitsch herself REPUDIATED the interview as reported in Trevor-Roper's book in no uncertain terms: "When I was released by the Americans, I read Trevor-Roper's book, THE LAST DAYS OF HITLER. Throughout the book, like a red line, runs an eyewitness report by Hanna Reitsch about the final days in the bunker. I never said it. I never wrote it. I never signed it. It was something they invented. Hitler died with total dignity."(p. 38)

The mention of Hanna Reitsch and her repudiation of the report as recorded by Trevor-Roper, raises what is perhaps the most glaring anomaly of them all in the suicide version: hers and General Robert Ritter von Greim's desperate and dangerous flight in a Fiesler Storch to Berlin in late April of 1945, and Rietsch's skillful landing of the small two seater reconnaissance aircraft on Unter den Linden Strasse during a Russian artillery barrage. Many of us know the Trevor-Roper version of the story from the famous film, HITLER'S LAST TEN DAYS, starring Sir Alec Guinness as an increasingly deranged and insane Hitler, totally out of touch with military realities and living out his last desperate fantasies in the bunker, and clinging doggedly to his power, even at that late date, to make people serve his slightest whim, no matter how looney. In this case, the story is that Hitler had Reitsch fly General Von Greim to Berlin to appoint him head of the Luftwaffe in the wake of Georing's attempt to seize the government, and Hitler's denunciation of the Reichsmarschal for treason. In the movie, a bewildered Reitsch and Von Greim are - quite reasonably - dumbfounded that they risked their lives for something so trivial. The point is made: Hitler was nuts, and the flight itself was foolhardy.

But, at this point, there is a serious discrepancy, and it has all the hallmarks of a cover story being put out. Notes Smith: "Why would Hitler, who was anxious for everyone else to leave Berlin, want someone to come to him? Why would he have been so keen to talk to the head of an almost non-existent entity? The official story fails to justify Greim and Reitsche's extremely dangerous flight. It also does not explain why the pair's flight from the Luftwaffe airbase at Rechlin near Berlin to Gatow airport on Berlin's periphery was accompanied by AN ESCORT OF 30-40 FIGHTER JETS - in other words, the extant Luftwaffe virtually in its entirety. Clearly the flight had a more serious purpose than we have been led to believe." (p. 41, emphasis added) Smith even observes that it is Carter Hydrick's thesis that the flight was in fact to smuggle Martin Bormann out of Berlin.

Smith even presents eyewitness evidence of a Hitler Youth soldier who happened upon an SS radio post in Berlin, and of hearing a radio report that Hitler had received his birthday present and had been successfully flown out of Berlin by Hanna Reitsch in the very same Fiesler Storch. From there, the rest of the flight is recounted by Hanna Reitsch: she flew back to Rechlin, where Von Greim "attended a conference." From there she and Von Greim flew to Ploen, headquarters of Grand Admiral Karl Doenitz, then to Dobbin, headquarters of Field Marshal Keitel, then to Luebeck, and once again back to Ploen, this time to see Doenitz. From there, in the strangest oddesy of all, she and Von Greim flew to the unlikely place of Koeniggraetz, in Bohemian Czechoslovakia! And we all know, by now, whose secret weapons think tank was headquartered in Bohemian Czechoslovakia!

And here Smith's three part series ends, and the real questions begin, for if one assumes that Hitler DID survive, and moreover, escaped Berlin and Germany successfully, where did he go? And what did he do once he arrived there? It would simply be unreasonable in the extreme to assume that he went elsewhere in Europe. After all, as history's most notorious criminal, and having just savaged Europe for five and a half years, there would have been no safe haven for him there. Only Franco's Naionalist Spain would have been relatively welcoming, and even then, Hitler would have been with easy reach of Allied or Soviet "special operations teams." The only other possibility of a relatively secure and welcoming refuge would have been Latin America. There the situation would have been a little more secure, but it would have been more or less the same story. The last two possibilities are disturbing, but must be mentioned. One place, of course, for the ex-Fuehrer of the totally eclipsed Greater German Reich to go would have been the alleged "secret base" in Antarctica. One cannot, though, imagine Hitler, who had by this time become accustomed to living in some luxury, managing to be happy in a spartan and doubtless small living quarters surrounded by miles of cold and ice, and surviving on walrus! Which leaves a final possibility...that Hitler's escape had been coordinated, not only with Nazis, but with other outside parties, who decided to take him in and screen him in thanks for a job well done. On this view, Hitler, in effect, went to ground with the very people who had put him into power. It would seem to take, at some point, the knowledge and connivance of a great power with the intelligence and security resources to keep a secret of that magnitude secret for that long, and to maintain for decades a cover story that looks increasingly to be as shaky as a pristine bullet on a stretcher in Dallas, Texas, in 1963.

Of these possibities, then, we end with two as being the most likely, if the escape scenario is true, and both of them end with "America."

42 thoughts on “WILL THE REAL ADOLF HITLER PLEASE DIE?”

  1. @ J
    @ Dr Farrell,
    I actually have a show from the BBC on WWII history recorded that discusses Martin Bormann and the DNA tests.
    I would like to know Dr Farrell’s view on it as well. I could possibly transfer the program to a dvd and post it to Dr Farrell if he wants.
    Let me know.
    G.

  2. The drug-guy was pretty funny. Perhaps he’s on Ritalyn.

    Did Hitler Die? It’s pretty simple. We’re asked to believe that he chose not to escape and actually chose death, because of his colossal failure. Hmmm.

    We know for certain that there was an underground train, and multiple routes of escape from that bunker. That’s probably where the evidence lies in his escape. It’s difficult because the whole thing was demolished and the bodies supposedly burnt, but the evidence is there. Only ethnic Germans were allowed to work on such facilities in the major cities and there would have been reliable witnesses leftover after the war to testify about the layout and routes of egress. Is it too late? Not for Hitler’s dentist, who reportedly said in the 1980’s while living in America that “we switched the dental records” of some poor schlub in the German Army (this last detail was according to a Boston Globe article cited by Radio show host Mae Brussel).

    The “Truthers” fumble about in a similiar fashion looking for clues about 9-11. “Look! Look! that’s a controlled demolition!” Completely sailing past the evidence and data. The connections that exist, the names and addresses of people who exist. The unpleasant facts that surface and are never to be dealt with. These poor, gullible people are actually clinging to the idea that phone conversations with loved ones were somehow faked. Completely alienating them from, basically everyone. Smart.

    1. the truthers are being co-opted by some element. A supposedly
      disgruntled CIA guy is the Davis area group or one of them
      that a friend of mine goes to or used to. That always made me
      suspicious.

      Yes, the real news is the surrounding connections, not how
      the towers came down. It really doesn’t matter whether it was
      truther nonsense or standard or whatever. that is a smokescreen,
      that people running with the spirit of the sin of pride can easily
      latch onto, suddenly they are know it alls.

      but it doesn’t matter, because what matter is not HOW but WHO
      (in the background). and the latter part, though dealt with on some
      sites, is not the main focus of the truthers.

  3. Hi Jason,

    Here’s one article about Bormann and the DNA tests.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/dna-test-closes-book-on-mystery-of-martin-bormann-1161449.html

    Then here is more from a random Google search, who knows if any of it is true.

    On December 7, 1972, construction workers uncovered human remains near the Lehrter Bahnhof in West Berlin. Dental records — reconstructed from memory in 1945 by Dr. Hugo Blaschke — identified the skeleton as Bormann’s, and damage to the collarbone was consistent with injuries Bormann’s sons reported he had sustained in a riding accident in 1939. Fragments of glass in the jawbone suggested that Bormann committed suicide by biting cyanide capsules in order to avoid capture.

    Some controversy continued, however. For example, Hugh Thomas’s 1995 book Doppelgängers claimed there were forensic inconsistencies suggesting Bormann died later than 1945. When exhumed, Bormann’s skeleton was covered in flecks of red clay, whereas Berlin is a city based on yellow sand. This indicated to some that the body had been re-interred from somewhere with a clay-based soil, such as Paraguay or the Andes mountains.

  4. Dr.Farrell,
    I enjoyed your hour on Coast to Coast am last night. You spoke about the possibility of Hitler escaping from Berlin at the end of ww2. You also stated that the skull that the Soviets have, which they claim is Hitler’s, is a woman’s. At the end of Hitler in color (the DVD) there is a small clip showing the Soviet authorities displaying some of Hitler’s personal articles. His jacket, cap etc. They also show a portion of his jaw+some denture work which when compared with his dental x-ray is a perfect match.It reveals some form of bridge-work. What are your thoughts on this?

    Thx
    Pat Dicarlo

  5. Hey Joseph, you may (I repeat, “may”) be interested in this bit about Bormann:

    http://www.savethemales.ca/

    Claims that Bormann was rescued by the British, because he was one of theirs.

    Don’t know how reliable that webpage is, but the article seems to be based on the book:
    “OPJB” (“operation James Bond”), claiming to be written by a British agent involved. I have not seen the book so cannot offer any opinions about it.

    I have no way to verify any of that article, but looks like there might, just might, be something to add to your work.

  6. Several questions on Herr Shicklgruber:

    Is there any basis to believe he might return? Many Antichrist identity speculators claim a clone could be produced. Some say Reagan is the guy, but wouldn’t Uncle Adolf make a better candidate?

    On another sidetrack, what’s up with Angela Merkel? Is there any reason to believe the ravings about her being the child of Hitler and Eva Braun’s sister, using Hitler’s frozen sperm? Supposedly the NKVD or KGB or whoever put this all together.

  7. Jason Commerford

    J

    Who performed these tests and where did they get the Genetic Material? Not being snide, sarcastic or critical just curious as to the source of this information.

    And may the Great Frank please forgive me if I have committed any grammatical trespasses as I forgive those who grammatically trespass against me.

    Jason

  8. Quick question about the death of Bormann.

    Apparently in 1998, genetic testing was performed on remains of a body found decades earlier buried in Berlin, and the results confirmed that the remains were those of Martin Bormann.

    Has this been debunked? Or is there evidence that Bormann’s remains were planted there, after he died in South America?

  9. Hi Dr. Farrell,
    Having heard several of your interviews, I’m not surpised that you are able to laugh at yourself! Good for you! And good for you that you kept your temper around those narrow minded ‘true believers’ you have encountered. That’s the mark of a true gentleman! Is it just me or people like you in the minority? 🙂 I’m looking forward to your next book.

    May the Force Be With You
    Matt

  10. Dr. Farrell,
    Us country folk from New Mexico who write sophisticated theoligical papers do the same dern thing all the time. Oops…I used the objective instead of the subjective sense. Darn, I used a slang word too. Dangit, I did it again!

    Do folks like this wish to add something substantial to the dialogue or go around being the Internet Pettifogger?

    Mr. Marshall,
    I believe if you were to be graced by Dr. Farrell’s presence (or is it presents? I can’t remember…) that you would recognize, rather quickly, that he is one of the finest researcher, teacher, patristic scholars, and gentleman that you will meet (meat?). So, I would be very slow placing in quotations the good doctors title.

    Photios

  11. Dear Mr. Marshal:

    Even Oxford PhDs make mistakes, even whopping ones, like this one. I guess it comes from being a country hick from South Dakota. Thanks for pointing out the mistake. I’d appreciate it the next time, though, if you’d do it less snottily.

    Cordially,
    JPF

  12. “Dr.” Farrell:

    In one of your comments above you wrote:

    “But on May 10 the same Grigg reported that a further FOUR bodies, ‘blackened and charred, that seem to answer to Hitler’s general appearance’ were drug out of the ruins of the Reichschancellery(NEXUS, March-April 2008, p. 35).

    * * *

    For someone who purports to have a Ph.D. from Oxford University, no less, it seems odd that this selfsame “academic” has yet to master English grammar. The word “drug” is a chemical substance that affects the body and/or the mind. The word does no “double duty.” That is, properly speaking, the word “drug” has no additional meaning. It is neither the simple past tense nor the present perfect tense of the verb “to drag.”

    Have you never heard of the word “DRAGGED?”

  13. I read somewhere that in 1998, genetic testing was performed on remains of a body found decades earlier buried in Berlin. And apparently the tests confirmed that the remains were those of Martin Bormann.

    Has this been debunked? Or is there evidence that Bormann’s remains were planted there, after he died in South America?

  14. Last year I believe it was, a South American journalist published a book describing in detail the locations and very houses in South America, in which Hitler et al resided in in the years following the great war. I was recently in contact with the author, who informed me that the book will be published in English in 2010.

    I would also like to seize the opportunity to direct your attention towards the existence of at least two well produced television documentaries on the subject of Hitler’s alleged demise.

    One of them includes the (filmed) testimony of a woman working in an Argentine (I believe it was) hotel, stating firmly that she served Hitler in the time following the war.

    I also urge you to look into the “Bush Connection” website of a Mr. Eric Orion – who dated the daughter of Hitler’s bodygard (Scorzinski, or something like that).

    This bodyguard on his deathbed provided information (and many, many photographs) concluding the demise of Hitler took place just a few years ago. Allegedly, Hitler spent his last years in the US under the name of William Koontz (not at all sure of the spelling).

    I also know of at least TWO other eye witness accounts that unbeknownst to each other has mentioned seeing Hitler in the US in the 90’s.

    It is well known that people such as Mengele (see e.g. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/brazil/4307262/Nazi-angel-of-death-Josef-Mengele-created-twin-town-in-Brazil.html) fled to South America after the war. Yet somehow – people find it hard to believe Hitler shared the same fate.

    It appears Adolf Hitler spent his last years as an art dealer. He had some type of plastic surgery performed on his face.

    Thank you for your attention.

  15. Anyone interested in the possible survival of Hitler after WWII should read this recent (2005) book:

    HITLER’S ESCAPE by Ron T. Hansic

    This book finally (for me) sums up everything and makes clear that the public story of Hitler’s suicide is pure fiction. And the only logical reason for the fiction is that he did not die then.

  16. Sharkhunters is an interesting website. Concerning the pictures of the remote and now abandoned house on the lake, if this site and the nearby laboratory are now vacant, does that mean the organization that built it is no longer in existence? Meaning, the Nazis? I’m wondering why someone would invest so much into these buildings and then not keep them up if they were still in existence. Is there a new Nazi organization? Do they have the same agenda and beliefs? Have they mainstreamed and gone underground into a certain government? Who is the new Fuehrer? Concerning the laboratory and its sinister barrels, does this signal that they gave up their research and work; was that lab a failure? Or did they move it to a more convenient and accessible location? Where could the new facility be located–still in Argentina?

    I guess these questions are for both Joseph and Harry.

  17. Hey Harry!

    Glad you visited my site and posted your website address here!

    For those of you who DON’T know it but are regular readers hear, Mr. Cooper is actually Lt Cmmdr. (Ret) and runs an organization of veterans from the submarine services of all sides of World War Two called Sharkhunters. I can tell you that without some of Sharkhunter’s research which Cmmdr. Cooper so kindly shared with me, much of the story of the Nazi International would not be known! So please check out his website and more importantly, read some of the fascinating detailed history in his magazines. You WON’T get this information anywhere else.

    Joseph F

  18. Moonlit Jungle

    very interesting read! i just read author’s said books and am actually reading “The Hitler Book,” right now, funny to see that mentioned on here. Looking forward to new information regarding the antartica-nazi connection

  19. This is a quite trivial correction to a not very serious comment, but the naturalist in me cannot help it. Regarding Hitler not enjoying “surviving on walrus” in Antarctica: If he could afford to have walrus imported across the globe, surely he could get better and cheaper fare from Argentina. Walrus don’t live in the southern hemisphere.

    Best Regards,

    Carl

  20. Joseph Farrell

    Dear Plooske Parfay:

    Thanks for the very interesting-sounding sources! I’ll certainly look them up and read them. Thank you very much!

    Best,
    Joseph Farrell

  21. Plooske Parfay

    Stalin was skeptical about Hitler’s suicide because he considered der Fuhrer to be a coward. Recommend “The Hitler Book,” a once-secret dossier by the KGB that documents Hitler’s reign based on testimony cleverly extracted from captured Hitler aides. Also recommend Paul Manning’s book on Bormann’s postwar career as CEO of the Nazi business empire (“Martin Bormann, Nazi in Exile”). Interesting, too, is “SS-1: The Unlikely Death of Heinrich Himmler,” by Hugh Thomas, which credibly presents the scenario that a double died for Himmler — with a coverup by elements of British intelligence. The takeaway from these investigative efforts is that the surviving Nazi elite had a postwar agenda which didn’t include Hitler.

  22. Purely in the speculative realms here, but given the JFK mention thought I’d include some co-incidences and the like I’ve been noticing about that (I saw the Zapruder footage when I was very young and it always felt to me as some type of marker or proof that it meant things had all gone wrong) –

    Similar to the King Kill document, there’s some sources that say Joe Kennedy was under obligation to a Jesuit order to sacrifice a son (so it matched up with a crucifixion type of death-sacrifice).
    The SS was also modelled around the Jesuits in terms of the structure. But – JFK had an older brother, who had already died during a WW2 military flight.
    I always thought there was something in that because of the way Kennedy Snr. came out of a meeting in London when he was Ambassador (his eldest son is meant to have died in or near London, but some sources say it was in Germany). He was angry with the Brits, and hadn’t been able to resolve certain things with them. And then there were the comments about -democracy being finished in England-.

    Moreso from the maybe-true area: I’d read an article (in an AUP book as it happens) in 1999 from a website about the ‘wingmakers’, which I later looked up. The parts about the black-ops were interesting and I wondered if it was one of those soruces where some real info is released but mixed up with other stuff.
    I was particularly interested in the Labyrinth Group as it was said to have been formed in 1963 – that year again – and was entirely focused upon a form of time-travel that caused no ripples (ie – time-travel without becoming part of the event or spacetime travelled to, so as to leave no footprint that you were there).

    Like I said, this is all just co-incidences and speculations, but something about it reminded me of another website about Jack Parsons, The Curious Origins of the American Space Program – because some chapters there spoke about something they called The Suicide Club, and that made me think of scenarios I saw depicted in two films – Freejack, and the first F/X movie.

    In Freejack this race car driver crashes his car and is reported to have died, but what happened was that some hi-tech gadetry (some kind of spacetime manipulation device) pulled him out of the vehicle before it crashed, and the first F/X film isn’t sci-fi at all, but depicts a scenario where an assassination is completely staged.

    One other co-incidence being, that in a Skoob published variant of the Necronomicon there’s a frontspiece graphic of an English translation, with John Dee’s name on – and it also shows a labyrinth graphic. What I found co-incidental was that although it’s a pentagonal labyrinth, it has the same amount of layers as the old symbol for the four elements – the four concentric circles, & it also matches the alchemical elements in how its path is arranged (there’s also a blocked-off wall in it, that’s maybe meant to be analogous to ‘da’ath’). In the wingmakers website, the Labyrinth Group symbol is said to be three concentric circles – also the UK Air Force symbol.
    The symbol also matched with the idea behind the technology, as it looks like ripples.

    What is weird though, is that the original wingmakers website was replaced, many years ago, with a very different version that went to explaining at length that all the parts about the blackops was all made up, and fabricated by one person.
    Every time I posted at their forums questioning some things they changed in other parts of the website (for example they changed the names in the interviews and left some parts of them out), my account would be deleted and my posts would be deleted, and also user accounts would begin to appear that were there just to post abuse about me.
    I tend to view those kinds of things in the ‘no smoke without fire’ manner of evaluating them.
    If it was made up entirely, then why alter it anyway while they say it’s made up; and why keep censoring any mention of it on their forums.

    Eventually via the internet archive I found the original wingmakers site, so I copied it and re-hosted it myself (some of it was missing). As far as I can tell / have bothered to check, it is actually available again in partial form, at the original website, along with loads of other material.

    There’s also the persistence of rumors of what JFK was intending to say in the Dallas speech (the one he would have made) being about cover-ups in the space technology area.

    I think that JFK getting in in 1960 was a bit of a coup anyway – in that it appears to have gone against what the planners of who gets into power wanted to occur; they seem to have planned to have Nixon win in 1960, and it maybe isn’t a stretch of the imagination to suggest that what was changed may well have been about preventing the nuclear holocaust (that Enochian armageddon scenario that was previously mentioned in this comments thread) that almost occured during the Kennedy admin.

    Curiously – the original ending for Dr.Strangelove was a pie-fight scene, and it was changed to the nukes going off following the Kennedy assassination.

  23. Did you get that last post / link ok?

    It’s showing up here for me, but as unposted.

    1. Regarding the first one, I notice two or three bats, water
      dripping from the phone, a woman in the side foreground partly
      hidden seems to be holding something to lure the bat, another
      bat hangs from a branch, seaside in background.

      Might point to South America, land of vampire bats?

      the second I look at closely, and see someone waiting with a
      boat. If Hitler is viewed as crucified, and if the (medically
      impossible given the spear to the heart) swoon theory of
      Christ’s death and Resurrection is in Dali’s mind, hardly
      unlikely given the occultism connections of surrealism which
      is almost invariably heretical, then again this might imply
      that someone is to take him to safety across a body of
      water……

  24. Joseph Farrell

    Hi Eric and Zupakomputer:

    Just a short note on your exchange. You’re correct, Eric, William Lyne does mention in his book PENTAGON ALIENS seeing Hitler in the USA. I mention this episode, and my incredulity and difficulties with some of Mr. Lyne’s
    Walter Mitty-like stories and anecdotes, in THE SS BROTHERHOOD OF THE BELL. I have to agree with Zupakomputer here, that some things one reads are so outlandish they shouldn’t be credited. What interested me is not Lyne’s historically “quesionable” ideas but rather some of his physical analysis.
    Zupakomputer, you’re right. One can make strange connections all over the place. I try to avoid that by having at leasr SOME hisorical reference. What interested me in your last comment was the painting by Salvadore Dali. I’ve never seen that one and wonder if you could supply a link to one somewhere?

    Best wishes guys,

    Joseph Farrell

  25. Eric – those two websites contradict one another. The first one is frankly, sick and deranged – it’s almost an exact copy of a website all about the Zodiac Killer, but the photo captions are slightly different as is one of the pictures.
    To me at least it’s always been blatantly obvious that certain peoples believe they can control various events and then use Bush and others as their fall guys: there’s two other instances of 9-11 dated events that took place prior to the 2001 one, and both are part of that type of – Enochian chess let’s call it.

    A read over the scrying transcripts of Dee and Kelley and you can see the very same forces at work back then, which sought to utilise the two men and more, to bring about the doomsday scenarios – such as WWIII.

    To be more precise though and to get back to the realms of the provable – the first site is saying that Tesla’s saucer tech was stolen by the Nazis, but usually the Lyne material says it was gotten directly – not stolen at all.
    The focus of the latter tends to be that aliens definitely don’t exist and all the tech is man-made. However if it’s considered that aliens and Biblical angels are the same beings, and the ‘Fall’ is more about humans losing their angelic state of beingness / consciousness (where death comes from – not being situated in the soul, thus being disconnected from the infinity of being), the whole picture starts to make more sense. Hopefully.

  26. Tesla’s closer to being Hitler than Bush is. Mull it over. Some people say that Kelley was sent to spy on Dee too, and Crowley said he was Kelley reincarnated. Himmler said he was reincarnated too, so did General Patton. Howard Hughes flies over Nazi Germany in 1938 and the Luftwaffe back off, later the OSS turns into the CIA.
    You can sit writing stuff like that all day long: Hess flies into Scotland in 1941, the details of that remain under national security secrecy orders. Dali is expelled from the Surrealists for ‘fascist sympathies’, paints a piece called The Enigma of Hitler – with an umbrella (JFK) in it, and a lobster (chitin), and later almost gifts his Christ of St. John on the Cross to Glasgow, a short way from where Hess landed. Cocteau does a mural in London with a black sun in it. The Skull and Bones is the Templar and SS insignia. JFK had a coffin-shaped table in the Whitehouse. The Book of the Law grid looks like a map of where the real gunman was in Dallas that day. The Labyrinth Group is real. Dr. Mengele ran a salsa club in Latin America. There’s an Elvis statue on Mars. That cord Spike Milligan pulled in Peter Sellers’ house made 9-11 happen in the future. Kubrick was actually Hitler and Sellers was adressing him directly with the last line in Dr. Strangelove, cause he had him shot earlier in Lolita, and that’s why The Boys From Brazil made the Hitlers all into photography and directing films. etc etc etc

  27. Joseph Farrell

    Dear Mr. Swan,

    Well, for once I must disagree with you, but I do so gently. I am very well aware of the “vast conspiracy that is the New World Order.” All of my books are about it. As for the website you sent, however, there is a significant difference between it and my books: I DOCUMENT what I say…and when I SPECULATE I let people know I am doing so. I have seen this website before, and put little to no credence in its assertions. The real picture, I believe, is much more complex, and I think, more disturbing.

    We need to be careful, in the alternative research community, not to believe every assertion, or carefully contrived diversion, that we encounter on the Internet. Anyone can post anything, and with Photoshop and so on, it is all too easy to doctor photos as well. I believe that’s what you’re dealing with on this website.

    Cordially,
    Joseph Farrell

  28. By George..I think he’s got it. I’m surprised that you haven’t clued into the vast conspiracy that is the New World Order. Pappy Bush was a Nazi sent to the U.S. to spy on Tesla. Tesla was murdered on Jan. 6, 1943 and his high tech weaponry absconded by Gehlen and presently forms the backbone of all the weapons currently being applied for weather modification, tsunami’s earthquakes and volcanoes. This is the zero point EMP weaponry that HAARP and others including Jakusa have been employing since the 70’s.

    Hitler did indeed end up in America. You can see pix of him and witnesses to that effect including Lynes at http://www.thebushconnection.com.

  29. Dear Zupakomputer:

    Yes the alchemical connection to Bohemia bia Dee and Kelley is certainly there. As I mentioned in one of my other posts in response to yours, I am writing a book right now concerning the relationship of alchemy to some of the Nazi Bell-related research….and as the new book at the printer now – SECRETS OF THE UNIFIED FIELD – also details, there is another Czech connection that has come to light only very recently.

    Best wishes,
    Joseph F

  30. “Bohemian Czechoslovakia” immediately makes me think of Dee and Kelley; in terms of the whole America plans it sounds like you are refering to, I think it began back in those times when the ‘New World’ was (officially at least) just being colonised.
    The next British monarchy after Elizabeth I, oversaw the change of the Bible into the accepted standard that holds today and is the basis of all other interpretations (the various Christian New Testaments that proliferate primarily in the USA).
    Such books as Enoch were removed entirely.

    America looks to me, on a global map, as being in the crosshairs center of a well known symbol (the cross in a circle) with reference to places in Eurasia (meaning, the rest of the landmasses excepting the Americas) the Nazis either had solid links with or believed they would have; the Russian one of course didn’t work out as it was expected to have, and Europe didn’t pan out that way entirely either.

    (Russia being the line in from the Canadian direction, and with Japan (and Tibet, India, and more) from the west, Europe from the east, and then there’s the curious Antartica refereneces that are found, although from the south it could be argued that they already secured a lot of Latin America, or went on to do so after the war.)

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