TIDBIT: THE KOOKINESS OF AMERICAN EVANGELICAL-DISPENSATIONAL-ZIONISM ...
I couldn't believe this one folks when a couple of you sent it to me, so I actually bothered to watch the first 1 minute and ten second of this one, where yet another self-anointed "preacher of the Gospel" is proclaiming the Good News of Zionism, but here is it, in living color, John Hagee knows the "true truth", as opposed to that "false truth" believed in by millions of Roman Catholics, Orthodox Catholics, Anglicans, Presbyterians, Lutherans, Methodists, Reformed, Anabaptists, Nestorians, Copts, Armenians and all stripes in between, for the last millennium and nine centuries, until, thankfully, Cyrus Scofield and his big oil backers (see Dr. de Hart's and my Yahweh, The Two-Faced God: Theology, Terrorism, and Topology):
John Hagee: Jesus Never Claimed to be the Messiah
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I agree, the Jews are behind everything.
The Jews assassinated Caesar, the Jews framed Alcibiades, the Jews organized the mysterious disappearance of Romulus and here is a news flash:
ODYSSEUS WAS A JEW!!!!!!!!!!!
Because only a dastardly Jew could have come up with such a dastardly plan as that dastardly wooden horse!!!!!
Really? The powers that be are made up of people of all religions and creeds, it is no one group.
There are not Jews hiding under every bed and in every closet.
Christianity is just as much a made-up religion
[to control others]
as all the others, especially the self-chosen
ones and their made up “two-faced”
[make that three-faced] god.
Sorry folks, I stand by my posts that
it’s a Universal Consciousness and
Thought is the First Energy of Creation.
Evil is pure destruction and therefore,
cannot sustain itself.
In spite of my life (?)
I still see it that way.
Hi HAL- hope you are well-
all religions are man-made power-broker constructs- I think we all know that by now-
I agree with you totally, but the problem for most is how to re-connect to this ‘Universal Consciousness’-
someone like David Icke (big thorn in many sides) has been advocating this for over two decades but he’s considered by most to be a “nutter”-
If I read things correctly, it’s about to
“re-connect” with us, those that
haven’t been trying to destroy the planet
and all of its life, anyway.
Overlooking my personal attitude,
I still ‘see’ and have to go along with that.
In spite of these prognostications of horror
from Dr Farrell and others that blog here,
this insantiy cannot continue and the point
of it is over.
I hope you are well and may continue to be so.
OK… I’m a bit lost here, but that’s maybe just simple-minded me. How, exactly, does bringing something to people’s attention, qualify as “prognostications of horror”? And what to you mean, “if I read things correctly”?
I’m not sure how to answer that.
In bringing the latest technology as used by those that have
nothing but themselves in mind to profit by it and taking
it into its future horrors, that is what it becomes.
But then, it can’t be helped, can it?
There really doesn’t seem to be much good
going on. My personal life to date even attests to that.
Someone once reminded me that if you step
on “toes” you are bound to awaken whoever they belong to.
Be that as it may, I couldn’t help stepping on those toes.
I had the responsibility to act, I had the responce ability to act.
It all worked out fine, for most in general, except for those
that stuck out their “toes,” the planners of war and murder.
Whatever that means I’ve had to live with it.
I’m not me without it.
And what do I mean….?
I can’t say how … and I am short on details.
I wish I knew more on a personal level.
All the science (natural science) is saying that big changes
are in the offing.
Other things too, and NOT in continued service to the
evil that now seems to prevail.
I hope that helps,
but an answer in total is really another book.
You’ve been very helpful to me from your books.
I wish I could clarify further.
Perhaps just some more food for thought, at the very least.
OK fair enough HAL, we all have those personal experiences with all of this I suspect, that are rather difficult to talk about even if one WERE inclined to do so. Sometimes it cannot even be adequately verbalized.
Thank you Joseph
While Hagee’s statements may be astounding and disturbing, I doubt that he can influence anyone to do anything of substance. His crap is not much more than mis-direction, just background fluff. If anyone believes the “Christian” far right can be used one day, when the need arises, to serve as a rabidly violent sectarian army, they have no clue to what is coming down the pike. This requires no inside information or high intellect to deduce. Just read, listen, observe and analyze because it is out there in front of us. What is coming down the pike was first stated on 07/02/2008. The intent was to raise “a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded” as the military branches of the United States of America. It will not be populated by a bunch of 50+ year old sheeple sitting in the pews of Hagee’s church or those sitting in their armchairs watching him on TV who could not even walk around a mall without huffing and puffing from over exertion.
The idea appears to have originally been proposed by Sec. of Defense Robert Gates and was implemented in the NDAA legislation that was passed in December 2011. The U.S. military is now authorized by Congress to arrest and detain indefinitely, without charge or trial, any U.S. citizen or not, on the mere suspicion of being a terrorist or helping to further terrorism as defined by the Secretary of Defense. The only one who can override the order is the POTUS. A nightmare scenario. They won’t be knocking on your door folks, they will simply bash it in and drag you off without that phone call to your attorney. As stated above, just read, listen, observe and analyze. FEMA has been stocking up on over one hundred million rounds of hollow-point ammo this year. Do the math.
a “rabidly violent sectarian army” is just another rabbit the banksters have to pull out of their hat if the need arises. Remember the 30 Years War? Pitting Protestants against Catholics worked very well for the Banksters, right up there with the Bubonic plague. It wiped out one quarter of Europe, destroyed the Alchemical Kingdom of Bohemia and opened many doors that had recently been shut on the banksters among the European monarchies. The banksters have rolled out the rabid evangelical armies already in such places as Africa. They are called Transformationalists and they have already started burning witchdoctors and shamans. They may may be on the march in other countries as well such as India. Sarah Palin describes herself as a tranformationalist.
I think this has a far better chance of success than the NDAA. A zionist fascist police state may be the pipe dream of the neo-cons, but I suspect the brass in the Pentagon with the real swinging testicles will have something to say about this and not neo-con chumps like Gates. Most likely, the NDAA will be used to round up neo-cons and their sympathizers when the time comes which I think is soon. Ergo the back up plan of sectarian civil war. The banksters always keep something simmering on the bak burner in case things don’t go as planned.
Maybe the neo-cons are stocking up on ammo in FEMA because they’re farsighted computer programs told them they may have to rely on these creations of their own making like FEMA to defend themselves if the US military or the mobs turn on them.
Meme Master, thank you for your friendly, informative post and the background history. You make some good points and I hear what you are saying, but with all due respect it is my opinion the primary target is America.
One of America’s mainstream religions is a spectator sport played on ballfields on SATURNday or SUNday. Perhaps the Outlaws could raise a rabid, violent, sectarian army from that group, but most likely it will come from a group who owes no allegiance to America. Who knows for sure?
The greatest affect the NDAA will have is to ‘disappear’ leaders. Individuals with a strong voice, like a Palin, will be a target and dealt with according to the plan. The sheeple will bleat and mill about, but their pastors will calm them down. These are my humble opinions.
I agree. The primary target is America. Africans are just the perennial lab rats for the banksters. They seem to test a lot of their projects on those unfortunate people. AIDS, cancer virus vaccines, etc. This tranformationalist religion is right out of some bankster think tank. Merging all Christian denominations into one watered down, pseudo-Christian zombie movement controlled at the top by the banksters of course. I have no trouble envisioning mobs of these programmed crazies attacking bankster targets the same way you, for instance, see Hindu mobs attacking muslims or vice a versa in India.
At this point I can’t even guess what the banksters will do next. I don’t think it is even possible. They have access to very old play books, very advanced technology, the fasted computers, and a plethora of Hollywood screenwriters on their payroll to conjure up their next move. My ruminations are really just an exercise in pushing the boundaries of my imagination and trying to think like them. Its probably selfish on my part, but I hope it doesn’t detract from the serious discussion that takes place on this website. Just the ravings of a lunatic I suppose.
I watched that youtube clip you posted the other day starring some neo-con jackal bragging about false flags and an impending one to get us into Iran. I can honestly say: the thought that jumped into my head is this guy is a dead man and I think he knows it, at least on a subconscious level. It was something in his demeanor. These guys are so crazed and have so much hubris, I think their astral bodies are shaking in their shoes fully aware of the karmic destiny soon to be meted out. Not to mention, he was so effete, I had to chuckle when I think of all those US military honchos, after 10 years of 9-11 truth information swamping the internet, and I’m sure all the officer club chatter about strange goings on on the day of the massacre, all these military men, sworn to protect the Republic from domestic enemies as well, now seething with anger, revenge, and powerful compulsions to defend the country from these murdering scoundrels.
On the surface, your NDAA seems the most plausible and its the scenario I had always subscribed to these last ten years. BUt if there is one thing I have learned from Giza Death Star, there are some powerful memes (and powerful internet radio talk show hosts) in place to make us believe all hope is lost and the banksters are invincible. The truth is: they shoot themselves in the foot with their greed and craziness all the time. I think they showed their face, showed how demonically insane they are, and waited too long to put the police state apparatus in place to protect themselves. In summation, the banksters, or at least their neo-con henchmen, are going to sink like a led zeppelin. Just watch that video again. These pansies are the guys plotting the overthrow of our Republic? I don’t think so. There are still a lot of men in high places in the military who feel the way about them that I do and are sharpening their bayonets.
I find myself in agreement with what your wrote, perhaps a small difference here and there, but we both agree, “Who knows for sure?”
Actually referring to the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion?!” That’s nothing short of chilling. OMG, is there no one left who does research outside of their own reality tunnel? Just think about the results 70 years ago. Of course anyone pointing this out must be sympathetic, and thus deserves the same fate,right?
This was long ago demonstrated to be the work of Tsarist government agents in France. This “document” was support for pograms intermittently carried out in Russia. And of course eagerly accepted by Nazis. Yet the nightmare keeps recurring.
As for Hagee, he may be pro-Zionist; he just hates actual Jews. Oh, and Catholics. And homosexuals. The usual extreme “Christian” far right scapegoat hate list. But look how this functions politically. It allows people, the lower middle class whites, who are increasingly disenfranchized politically and economically, to find common cause with their own oppressors. Because what is happening isn’t the failure of work-hard-get-success-America and expectation of reward for their obedience. It is the fault of some cabal of undesirables.
Of course some aspects of the Israeli goverment find Hagee useful. They realize from long experience what to expect from the rest of the world. Very few ever cared that Jews were persecuted, slaughtered even. Political survival often makes for rather strange allies.
Ask where these “Christian broadcasters get so much money. Look at this from the aspect of who would benefit most from Hagee’s propaganda. If the rapture (a non-biblical idea, btw) is imminent, then no need for concern about wages, retirement, healthcare, politics, education,history. That the 1% is accumulating all power and wealth doesn’t matter. Also look at this group’s main concerns: fear and hatred.
An alternative theory? The worst anti- Christian conspiracy ever. Because that if message about love and life are real, then this does not fit the economics of materialism and accumulation. Or the war machine. And here’s the part seldom acknowledged– Acts 4: 34-5 “There was not a needy person among them, for as many as had land or houses, sold them. Bringing the proceeds and laying them at the fee off the apostles, who distributed to each as any had need.”
Communism has always been equated with the Jews. “Jewish Bolshevism” is a term often used. Aso, there were many terrorist attacks in Russia over the years, and that can be likened to the ongoing terrorist activities today.
Far too many dual citizens in government in the US today, just as it was in Russia in the early 1900s.
Now after my rants, I am still very open to others (Nazis?) being involved, and quite possibly higher in rank. Or, does this explain the infighting we appear to be seeing today?
An interesting site which gives a brief overview of Chapter 20 of “Two Hundred Years Together…””:
“Communism has always been equated with the Jews”??? This is news to me… I always equated it with, well, Communists.
Seriously? No connection with Jews at all?
Communism is the Talmud in action.
How about “often”?. However, have you read “The Jewish Revolutionary Spirit and Its Impact on World History” by E Michael Jones? Well over 1000 pages including endnotes? He makes the case very well. Of course not ALL communists are Jews, but the Bolshevik Jew, for instance, was quite commonly used. I’m sure he doesn’t have all his facts correct, but a fascinating read regardless.
It never ceases to amaze me, RaPhi, that any time I post anything of this nature, there are always a certain kind of “skinhead in the closet,” so to speak, that get on and spout the same old nonsense…. hang in there.
Joseph would you mind being more specific about who is the “skinhead in the closet” this time?” And also why you believe that to be the case. I would like to think that we can maintain the high road here and not resort to prejudice and let our opinions be governed by emotion. All the opinions I have read on this particular thread so far constitutes nothing more than a sharing of ideas. If someone has a bias because of how much, or little, they have read on the topic up til now surely merely asking the question is not a crime.
If you read my remarks, they were of a general nature, not meant to be directed toward this thread in particular. I have had a LOT of emails from people – sometimes of a nature that could only be construed as threatening – when I post things like this (or on You Tube). Sorry, should have clarified.
Hi, Dr. Farrell
I get that same thing with people threatening me. I don’t understand it because I’m not a very important person, and have no ability to influence policy. Just as a side point, I would like to say that I would never threaten you or anyone else, on YouTube or anyplace else. Not saying that you are referring to me, but I have been called a “Skinhead” before, which I absolutely am NOT. Although I’m sure there are those who consider themselves to be such a thing, it also seems like that name “Skinhead” can get thrown around a lot to stigmatize people who are engaging in speech that some people don’t like. I’ve also been told by college professors that “I would be prudent to edit my classroom comments, because it could get me thrown out.” Seems strange to only be able to make certain types of acceptable comments in an educational facility. I know you have mentioned that you have had similar experiences. Since we have these similar experiences, I would like though, to point out one difference. Some of my comments, if made in some European countries could actually get me thrown in jail, and in the U.S. I’m told it can attract the attention of certain Federal police agencies. Since I do not advocate any kind of violence, I find this strange. I’m only just speaking. The reason I bring it up though, relates to your books, and your blog. Although I can certainly understand why a State would be interested in stopping people who are trying to start violent revolutions, jailing someone, for example, such as Dr. David Duke, who is also opposed to any type of violence, seems really excessive to me. Yet he has been thrown in jail a number of times for speaking out against Zionists. More to my point though, since many western countries have actually pursued a governmental policy of forbidding speech which Zionists consider to be, not in their best interests, wouldn’t this indicate that it is the Zionists, who we find on many corporate boards, and heading up banks and media companies, who are influencing Western policy, and NOT Nazi interests? If Paper Clip Nazis infiltrated our government, and are in cooperation with Nazis who escaped to South America, and they are secretly controlling our government and influencing Western policy, wouldn’t we see the West taking a very Pro-Nazi position, and actually encouraging people like Dr. David Duke? Wouldn’t we see Nazism being promoted in Universities? Would these Nazis allow the History Channel (AKA “The Hitler Channel) to produce holocaust documentaries? Would the ADL and AIPAC even be allowed to exist in America, much less influence our politicians with the power and financial backing that they have? Or would they ever have managed to get such power? Would we find all these Zionists running banks and corporations in the disproportionate numbers that we do? Would politicians and government officials be getting dual citizenship with Israel? Would we be ready to send troops to bomb Iran, and start WW3 because Israel demands it? Would we allow Israel to have Nukes? Would we always side with Israel in the UN? Would we have covered up the attack on the USS Liberty? Would we be supplying Israel with arms? Would people like Hagee, and the televangelists be promoting Zionism, while Zionists run around saying that Christians are donkeys, and Jesus is in hell, boiling in his excrement?…etc…etc…etc??? Although I find your books interesting, I guess I don’t see eye to eye with you on some of your conclusions that you come to. Seems more to me like Rothschild Zionist, the one’s who arranged for the Balfour Declaration, and their Zionist Bankster criminal underground are the modern day Babylon’s Banksters, and they are promoting the very opposite of what we would expect to see, if they had anything at all to do with Nazis.
Unless you have an IQ around 80, or work for either the ADL, ATF, FBI, or SPLC or hate your parents and are from Brooklyn, you probably are not a skinhead. The intelligent discourse on this subject of those we dare not criticize leads me to believe we are dealing with earnest truth seekers and not trolls.
When my local synagogue was vandalized years ago by skinheads, the “skinheads” turned out to be jewish members of the synagogue.
I understand completely why Dr. Farrell does want to cater to this age old debate on his website, we all know very well what happened to Ezra Pound and David Irving, but gee wiz, it is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. I’m open to the idea that there are forces at work who might want to turn them into scapegoats, but all these forces have done is given those that we dare not criticize some rope. They are hanging themselves.
Dr Farrell, have you actually read the old books, by people who either lived there or visited Russia? I cannot believe these people lied. I found the horror of what I”d read the first time so great that I had to dig out as many books as I could find to either verify or give the lie to what I had learned. I did know of the Anastasia story, but couldn’t give much credence to it.
The murder of the Tsar and his family in Ekaterinberg was detailed over and over in the old books I have read.
I am deeply offended if you have labelled me a closet skinhead. You can tell me about the atrocities of the Nazis but I cannot speak of a worse one? Please at least look at the link I gave. it won’t take you much time.
I apologize if I got off track here. It offends me that people like Hagee preach what they preach. My family history has many Christian ministers (Presbyterian) and I think they’d turn in their graves. His attitude toward Israel and how Christianity should respond no matter what they have done has definitely become “mainstream” – I know it has amongst my otherwise Norma, devout and loving relatives – and has caused them to judge Islam and it’s followers badly. I find that difficult.
I eventually left the church and your book on Yaweh formed the words I could not find for my reasons.
To be honest, I see my search for truth as similar to yours, but in a different direction. I joined your site with the genuine understanding that I would learn more. I am disappointed that I have been smeared for stating this truth.
What I learned about Russia came much later in my search for truth. And I still believe I learned truth. How this fits into what is happening in this world I don’t know. I just know what I have read.
Norma should read normal.
Again, Daphne, no one has called you anything. My remark is general. And yes, I’ve read quite a few of those books and am as repulsed by the deeds described in them as you. But, by the same token, making comments like AshkeNAZI do not constitute argument. But understand that when I have received THREATS from people via emails, or even in some cases, emails relayed through others, for comments made here on Zionism and similar ideologies of ANY specially chosen group or people, or for comments made on You Tube, for daring to question the “Aryan line”, or the Zionist line, yes, I get a little sensitive. What we are trying to do is get AWAY from sources like Fahey. I have had a Jewish FAMILY member, who treated my dying sister with compassion and kindness, so yea, I get sensitive when people start talking about things in this manner. And incidentally, that family member WAS an Ashkenazim Jew, a “Khazar” if you will. His name was Meyer Tobias Cohen, and you’ll note, he is the one of the dedicees of my book Reich of the Black Sun. In fact, he helped me enormously get started on my writing career, and that was my way to thank him. Did we have numerous, and even heated, discussions about Zionism? Yes, you bet we did, but in the end, his heart saw that this – Zionism – was as much reprehensible as its Aryan counterpart.
As for the lamentable source of all this, yes, I truly do think it lies in Yahweh the book-god and all the horrid character outlined in those books. My real concern, Daphne, is that the arguments be REAL arguments, from sources that are not questionable (Fahey), or a kind of spurious etymology. Let’s look at the AshkeNAZI comment: even if that whole approach WERE true, I think you’d agree that it isn’t a license to hate Ashkenazim. By the same token, the comment about Communism always being associated with Jews, well, again, see my comment. When I think of Communism, I think of Communists, whether or not they be Jew or not, the doctrine itself and its adherents is what I think of. Was Trotsky a Jew? Marx? Was Khrushchev married to one? Yes. What about Bela Kuhn in Hungary? Yes to all of it. So what? Was Stalin? No. As I recall, he was an Eastern Orthodox seminarian. So, when I think “Communist” I do NOT “always”(your word, not mine) think “Jew.”
Thank you for blogging a reply on this. I was distressed by the “skinhead” part and took it personally as I was the only one saying these things.. Unfortunately Fahey was the only author whose name came to mind, and I was in bed with the iPad. I didn’t actually finish his book like I did the others. He did however quote the same names of Russian Jews “running the show?” as in the other books.
But to say the killing started with Stalin was incorrect. From what I have read Lenin (part Jew who spoke Yiddish at home?) ordered the killing of the royal family.
And for the record, my mother’s maiden name was Matthew, and my great grandfather was Micah Matthew. They were from Scotland. So I do not judge all Jews. That they became Presbyterian ministers doesn’t take from the fact that their heritage is Jewish. I read / listen to people like Gilad Atzmon, Norman Finkelstein, even Noam Chomsky and know that they represent the best in Jewry. And of course there are many other great, intelligent Jewish people.
And this is not my only interest. I have over 2,000 books and these represent my search for truth in many areas. Unlike you, I cannot find anyone to “have a discussion” with on any of the topics I would like to discuss. I envy you only one thing, and that is your friendships with people who can talk with you for hours on any given subject.
The Ashkenazi comment was interesting and that is all. I enjoyed the follow-up. Ii wish I hadn’t been so flippant.
Regarding Fahey, what interested me was that the names he related were the same as the names I’d read in some of the following books.
Third Rome: Holy Russia, Tsarism and Orthodoxy by Matthew Raphael Johnson
Last Days of the Romanovs by Robert Wilton
Russia’s Agony by Robert Wilton (1918)
Under the Sign of the Scorpion by Yuri Lina
The Romanovs – The final Chapter by Robert K. Massie (which discusses Anastasia)
The Controversy of Zion by Douglas Reed
Robert Wilton was a Times correspondent and lived in Russia for ten years early in the 19th century, as was Douglas Reed later. Reed went with Anthony Eden on the first visit to Russia by the UK after it was sovietised, but I expect you already know this.
Barry Chamish, who I read and emailed with for awhile, just got too crazy for me. And his hatred of Muslims was palpable. But he also informed me of a lot I didn’t know, including the work of Sabbati Zvi. He also put me onto the work of Rabbi Marvin S Antelman, “To Elimate the Opiate”.
But as I said, I have had nobody to “have a discussion” with. Anyone searching for truth needs this if at all possible. I find the one Presbyterian relative I could talk to impossible, as he believes the Jews are perfect and has a terrible attitude towards all Muslims, and nobody else is even vaguely interested. He actually told me that I was being “anti-semitic” by speaking ill of Israel.
And when you stated the below, I found that this was my final thinking (which was why I was ready to learn from your site):
“Yes, you bet we did, but in the end, his heart saw that this – Zionism – was as much reprehensible as its Aryan counterpart.”
And I wholeheartedly agree with this:
“As for the lamentable source of all this, yes, I truly do think it lies in Yahweh the book-god and all the horrid character outlined in those books.”
Which was why I eventually left the church.
Everything is always a forgery when it is critical or gives credence to the sinisterness of this most powerful yahweh cult. Of course Benjamin Franklin’s Warning was a forgery. A worldly gentleman such as he would never say such a thing.
As far as the Protocols go, just read it for yourself. Its clearly a playbook. My bet is the sorcerer Noah had it stashed away on his ark when he fled sinking Atlantis after his cohorts managed to subvert and destroy that civilization. It probably had a different name back then and Noah’s yahwehist religion had a different name as well. Now Noah’s descendants are using the same witchcraft and same playbook to subvert and destroy current civilization.
The Protocols are as timeless as the Rig Veda and the battle between between good wizards and bad wizards.
Has anyone actually read “The Protocols of Zion”?
I have and it does strike me as pretty amazing that so much of what was predicted over 100 years ago is actually happening today. Jewish sources say it is a forgery, but I believe there has to be an original document to forge.
Would love to read anyone’s opinion on this.
I read it. It too find it interesting that this term “forgery’ is thrown around. Always made me wonder…Forgery of what?
Actually, I like David McGowan’s take on Jesus. He suggests that John The Baptist was the Roman target.
Jesus, the government puppet to replace him.
I like it, because it is so blashhemous; and yet,
there is method to such mad incantations.
Again, the truth is illusive.
The point of this (w)hole excercise is:
Think Outside The Box.
Awww…Can’t pick on poor John. He’s just doing his job and being a good little Goyim. And what does John get as his reward? Hope and eternal salvation? A saved “Donkey”? The supremacist ideology of Zionism roars with laughter at the prospect of such a thing. Donkeys don’t get salvation! They get worthless debt paper circulated by Pharisee bankers! They get digit points in a bank account! The irony is incredible, because Zionism is utterly hateful toward Christianity. So sorry to post a vid from that rabble rouser, who defected from the Zionist ranks, to the Orthodox Church, because he could no longer stomach the rabid Zionist hate, but it seems that few people these days are pointing out the fact that this strange version of Christianity, that Hagee and other members of the multi-billion dollar televangelist industry are preaching, actually hates Jesus, and hates Christians.
Tor do you have any additional information on the authorship of the Talmud that this former Rabbi says was completed around 800A.D.?
Arthur Koestler’s The 13th Tribe is a thought provoking book on the origins of modern Jews. Jews themselves admit to the diaspora but many will resist Koestler’s wholesale conversion hypothesis that says a tribal elder make it the religion of choice some time during the 9th century in the region known as Khazaria. This is certainly a question that could use DNA to ascertain lineage. It’s been said that as many as 90% of present day Jews are Ashkenazis, descendants of the Khazars and that a nominal 10% are Sephardic Jews, those with Semitic lineage. No doubt this is a veritable Pandoras Box that many would prefer to be left unexplored because the implications are enormous.
I find the very Name AshkeNAZI of interest.
How about NAZarene? See, Jesus wasn’t Jewish, he was a Nazi! OMG…
Good one! 🙂
Good grief Daphne… can we do better than threadbare word play here?
Notice Ashkenazi sort of rings like Annunaki?
Koestler’s speculations mean what? That it’s okay to hate “Khazars?” They were a small central Asia ethnic group caught between rival Christian and Moslem forces. They decided a thousand years ago to go with what at the time seemed neutral.
The Y chromosome genetics have been done. The descent is as tradition says. Plus confirming the Falasha Jews and the claims of African tribes like the Lemba.
I think you may be incorrect there regarding genetics. It is commonly held that eastern Jewry does not have Semitic blood, unlike the Arabs and Jews who have lived together peacefully for thousands of years. From all I have read the khazars have always been a warlike people.
And no, I am not saying Arab nations never fought. Just not like the devastating middle east wars we know today. The west and Israel obviously have an agenda.
It is NOT “commonly held” by anyone who will do fact checks.
Nor is it difficult to find info in peer-reviewed genetics journals. Nowdays, don’t even have to use university libraries to access data bases since the event of PLoS. Yes, I did look up the data. Counting the rare Uighur Y chromosome G2c subtype as related to Khazar (which it may not be) would give 7% at most. If that sort of language does not appear in the alleged sources, then it isn’t about science.
Claims to the contrary are the ugly machinations of neoNazis and a few extreme right-wing Russian Orthodox “Christians,” who operate on fear and hatred. As do extremist American fundamentalists. Those values do not lead to the Divine, but to its contrary.
RaPhi regarding you remark,”That it’s okay to hate Khazars?” Huh? Where did that come from? I didn’t say that.
Can you link me to a genetic origins study other than Wikipedia without lapsing into hubris and righteous indignation?
I am trying find the truth whatever it may be. I have no personal agenda.
I didn’t say you said that. But I also wasn’t clear. What I meant was that casting the northern and eastern European Jews as “Khazars” seems to separate them from biblical ties. That “reasoning” is used to justify extremist hatred. Why is the issue of Khazar or non-Khazar being kept alive except to imply something sinister? It’s demonstrably false.
Wiki? Huh? Check the scienftic data bases. There are 79 related articles on PLoS One alone, 39 specific to the genetic lineages. Several more at The American Journal of Human Genetics, The International Journal of Human Genetics, etc. As well as good basic articles done for the magazines Scientific American and my fave, (the British) New Scientist.
RaPhi, you said:
“I didn’t say you said that. But I also wasn’t clear. What I meant was that casting the northern and eastern European Jews as “Khazars” seems to separate them from biblical ties. That “reasoning” is used to justify extremist hatred.”
Stating something does not necessarily mean that you can HATE the other.
We are all going through the process of learning more about the world in which we live. Often a lonely road. However, the word hate never enters my mind. Does it yours?
Have you read “The Invention of the Jewish People” by the Jew Shlomo Sand? You could find that interesting. Also Gilad Atzmon’s “The Wandering Who”.
Reading those books does not bring out any hateful feelings in me. Just interest as I try and put pieces together.
Maimonides was one major and highly esteemed author. However my understanding is that there were many over the years. Tor may be able to help you further.
Hey Tor, don’t tell anyone but I go to his site too!!! I actually find some of what he says very interesting.
I enjoy the eclectic mix on this site but why are we wasting time on that fruitcake Hagee? That whore, like any good televangelist, knows to whom to pander for his meal ticket. What next, old quotes from Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggert?
Those who seek Christ’s message should not overlook the work of Rocco Errico, an Aramaic scholar. IMO The Bible is a blend of original wisdom and corruption due to omissions of old scripture like The Gnostic and Nag Hamadi texts, lost translation from the original Aramaic, to Greek, to Latin and later English in its many versions. Stir in numerous modifications in the form of church canons brought to us by “authorities” starting with the Council Of Nicea and the original context of Christs message is all but completely lost.
On that note, while I was still searching for something in the church teaching I could hang onto (and therefore remain a member) I learned that Aramaic was probably spoken by Jesus so bought a second hand Aramaic Bible. I didn’t find much in the way of stand out differences, and my desire to stay in the church was waning, so I wasn’t greatly helped. Perhaps I should have persevered, but I imagine even this version would have been tainted with Nicean doctrines etc.
1. “jews did not reject jesus as messiah”
2. “jesus rejected being messiah”
so jesus, not being the messiah, was accepted by the jews as messiah, even though he himself rejected it..
Let’s see…Hagee claims Jesus is not the messiah. Hinn claims that each member of the Trilogy is itself a trilogy (nine beings altogether). And these are the loonies promoting Israel’s existence as being fulfillment of Scripture? Anyone with any sense should be running from these shysters, and it certainly undermines ANY defense of Israel they can muster. Bibi Nutty-yahoo is doing a fine job of shooting that nation in the foot, as well.
I always suspected Hagee as being an agent of Zionism. It’s almost like he and the people behind him are trying to start another type of Yahwist faith that will break from Christianity. This faith would be an Old Testament based Christianity.
And the funny thing is that most Jews are actually quite scared of the Hagee types. The only Jews that like Hagee and co. are right-wing Jews in the Lakude party. These Hagee types are the folks who would kill people in the name of Jews if “God” tells them to. If WWIII starts going bad for Israel and the Zionists in general, look for a “super natural” event to take places in which “God” tells these people to start killing in the name of Israel.
I don’t expect WWIII will go well for Israel or the Zionist set in the West.
Bear claw Chris Lapp, Your statement on starting “…another type of Yahwist faith that will break from Christianity.” rings true. Many of these Hagee types are always quoting from the Old Testament to “prove” their errant point.
I am not sure that humanity would accept another religion, with all its inherent agendas. People are turning away from religion in droves. We seem to be more in tune with the gnostic idea of a direct relationship with divinity.
The fundamentalists are mostly a curiosity, and the old school practicing Christians appear to be a dying breed. I just don’t think a new religion foisted on us would take.
These hassidic gentiles are a crudely crafted golem. they are the zionists’ most useful idiots. In the least, they are a voting bloc in support of zionist craziness. More sinisterly, they can be used one day, when the need arises, to serve as a rabidly violent sectarian army that can be turned on opponents of zionism or yahwehism in general such as Catholics, Hindus, Buddhists, new agers, etc.
Fortunately, Hagee is such a buffoon, if he isn’t a crypto or a satanist, then my next guess would be some one has put him in place to discredit the zionists and possibly turn him and his rabble loose on the zionists themselves in the future.
Sadly, this kind of pathetic yahwehism lends acceptability to the need for re-education camps one day, when the dust clears and the zionist scourge has been vanquished. Hopefully, Hagee’s followers will see the light when these false prophets are exposed, most likely in spectacular televised Stalin-esque show trials. If they fail to see the light, I would think a few weeks or months in an upscale FEMA camp with all the amenities being taught the precepts of Truth and Beauty would de-program them.